Archive for the ‘resurrection’ category

Resurrection is not Ascension to Heaven

January 7, 2018

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Christ is there, and in that sense absent from here, and we are not there or going there.

John 5: 24 “I assure you: As many as who hear My word and believes Him who sent Me have the lasting life of the age to come and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

This is passing from condemnation to justification.

Romans 6 explains how Christ Himself began in condemnation for the imputed sins of the elect, and then satisfied for those sins, and was vindicated and justified—now dead to sin and death.

John 5: 25 “I assure you: An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted to the Son to have life in Himself. 27 And the Father has granted the Son the right to pass judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

This is passing from being unable and unwilling to believe the gospel to being born (from above)
If we say “born again”, the contrast is between our first birth in corruption, with no will to believe God.

Christ Himself was born as “also human now”, but never born with any possibility of not believing or doing what God does or commands to be done.

John 5: 28 Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come out—

Notice that the text does not say that only our bodies (or souls) come out of the graves. We ourselves come out of the graves, on the last Resurrection day, when Christ comes to earth again a second time.

Christ Himself was raised in this way, coming out of the grave, as the first-fruits of we who will come out of the graves on that last day.

I Corinthians 15: 16 For if the dead are not raised, Christ has not been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Therefore, those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished…. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep

I Corinthians 15: 23 But each in his own order: Christ, the first fruits; afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He puts all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy to be abolished is death.

Romans 5: 17 Since by the one man’s trespass,DEATH reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. 18 So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation …., so also through one righteous act there is LIFE-GIVING justification… just as sin reigned in DEATH, so also grace will reign through righteousness, resulting in the lasting LIFE of the age to come through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Those who have now already been justified NOW HAVE the lasting life of the age to come, but they do not yet have immortality. Those who are born condemned into this world include the elect, but none of them has been given the “second death” yet. Those who are justified will never be given the second death, but those who remain condemned will not only be ruined or excluded but will terminally die, permanently perish. John 3: 16 “For God gave His One and Only Son, so that as many as who believe in Him will NOT perish but have lasting life. John 3:36 the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God REMAINS on him.”

Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and to the ages.”

I Corinthians 15:45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Romans 1 Paul a servant of Christ Jesus called to be an apostle set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,

Now Christ is seated in heaven (Acts 2:34; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:13). None of the justified elect are now in heaven.

Psalm 110:1–”The Lord says to my Lord; Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” Except in their representative, the justified elect do not share God’s throne and do not sit at God’s right hand. The heavenly glory Christ had enjoyed in the Father’s presence before His incarnation has now been “crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death. (Hebrews 2:9)

Christ was first resurrected (the first-fruits) and then He ascended to heaven. Sitting there at the right hand, Christ does not simply wait but intercedes for the justified elect Romans 8:34–“What judge will condemn us? Will Christ Jesus who died, and more than that, was raised to life, who indeed is at the right hand of God, and who is pleading our cause?”

An ascent directly into heaven from the cross without a resurrection would be Plato’s pagan idea of death as the release of an immortal soul. But going to heaven is not resurrection. Gnostics teach going to heaven without resurrection. Gnostics teach that the only resurrection is going to heaven. Some of these gnostics are preterists, but most of them simply do not think straight about the need for the second coming of Christ.

They also hold onto unbiblical ideas about what “soul” is. Since they do not know that the living soul is body plus breath (Genesis 2:7), they tend to think of the “immortal soul” and they cannot deal with reality of Christ the servant pouring out His soul unto death (Isaiah 53). Since they change Christ’s death into “spiritual death”, they also tend to confuse Christ’s bodily resurrection with His ascension (“going to heaven.”)

Some “not going to think about it” preachers go so far as to say that Christ’s “spiritual death” (which some locate “in the time before time”) is the real and effective death. They say that the physical death is only a demonstration of that timeless before time “real spiritual” death. Other preachers do not go as far as that, but they prefer talking about Christ’s “infinite soul suffering” instead of the death Christ died in history which was demanded by God’s law for the sins of the elect imputed to Christ.

Acts 3:15–”You killed the author of life, but God raised Him from the dead.

Ephesians 1:20 describes God’s mighty power “which He exercised in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and enthroned Him at His right hand in the heavenlies.” See also I Peter 1:21, 3:22; Ephesians 4:8-10; and I Timothy 3:16 (“He was taken up into glory”)

https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1116142239324

We are citizens of heaven who are not going to heaven, because heaven is coming here. Now we are a colony of heaven, with the law of Christ FROM heaven. To paraphrase George Steiner (My Unwritten Books, p 122): The Christian does well to keep a very loose relationship to any one place. If he is forced to resume his wondering, he will not regard this experience as a lamentable chastisement. It is also an opportunity. There is no society not worth exploring. And no nation not worth leaving if we need to. Exile means exodus, and new beginnings. Let us survive, if we survive, as guests among men. We will not kill them, but if they kill us, our hope is that the earth belongs to the Lord, and the Lord will resurrect us, even from death.

Updike, Self-consciousness, p 215—-Paul rejected the Gnostic idea that the resurrection had already taken place (II Tim 2:18) and in I Cor 15;14 rebuffed doubters within the early church—if Christ be not rise, then our preaching is in vain, and your faith is also in vain, The church insisted no less firmly than modern materialism that the body is the person, and taught the resurrection of the dead.

Updike–If we picture the afterlife at all, it is heretically as the escape of something impalapable—the essential “I—from this corruptible flesh, occurring at the moment of death and not “at the last trump”. The thought of a long wait within the tomb afflicts us with claustrophobia and the fear of being lost forever. Where is our self during the long interval?. The winged heads on Puritan tombstones do not represent ascended angels but souls hovering in that abyss between death and resurrection. The idea that we sleep for centuries and centuries without a flicker of dream, while our bodies rot and turn to dust and the very stone marking out graves crumbles to nothing, is terrifying.

Updike–Every attempt to be specific about the afterlife, to conceive of it even the most general detail, appalls us. Our brains are no longer conditioned for reverence and awe. We cannot imagine a Second Coming that would not be cut down to size by the televised evening news.

Advertisements

The Priority of Christ’s Second Coming–Notes for a Watch Night New Year’s Eve

January 6, 2018

The apostle Paul’s desire was to be with Jesus not by dying but by the second coming of Jesus. Paul’s cry of “Maranatha!” (1 Cor. 16:22) echoes the closing prayer of Scripture, “Come, Lord Jesus” (Rev. 22:20). “Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have the lasting life of the age to come , and I will raise them up at the last day” (John 6:40)

In the age of the old covenants, Christ’s people were looking for His first coming. In the new covenant, Christ’s people are looking for His second coming

We individual Christians are often separated from each other now. We don’t even know now many sinners who will be gathered with us one day in the body of Christ. But we know that all who are justified before God by Christ’s death will all be resurrected together when Jesus comes again

Acts 2:23 Though Jesus was handed over according to God’s determined plan and foreknowledge, you used lawless people to nail Jesus to a cross and kill Jesus. 24 God raised Jesus up, ending the pains of death….David says of Him:

I saw the Lord ever before me;
because He is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart was glad,
and my tongue rejoiced.
Moreover, my flesh will rest in hope,
27 because You will not leave me in Hades
or allow Your Holy One to see decay.

29 “I can confidently speak to you about the patriarch David. David is both dead and buried, and David’s tomb is with us to this day. 30 Since David was a prophet, David knew that God had sworn an oath to him to seat one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing this in advance, David spoke concerning the resurrection of the Messiah:
He was not left in Hades,
and His flesh did not experience decay.
32 “God has resurrected this Jesus.

Hebrews 11: 39 All these were approved through their faith, but they did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, so that they would not be made perfect without us.

Hebrews 9: 26 now Christ has some one time, at the end of the ages, for the removal of sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, the judgment— 28 so also the Messiah, HAVING BEEN offered ONCE to bear the sins of many, will APPEAR A SECOND TIME, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.

Jesus not only came to earth but became incarnate.
When Jesus comes again to earth, He will already be incarnate—is now and forever incarnate.

Is the second coming part of the gospel?
Can you deny the second coming and still believe the gospel?
Can you not know about the second coming and still believe the gospel?

I Corinthians 11:25 after supper He also took the cup and said, “This cup is the new covenant established by My blood.DO THIS, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, YOU SAY the Lord’s death UNTIL HE COMES

I Corinthians 15: 17 And if Christ has not already been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins and those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished…20 But Christ has already been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep….each in his own order–Christ, the first fruits. Afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ.

Romans 6: 5 Since we have been joined with Him in the likeness of His death,we WILL certainly also be in the likeness of His RESURRECTION.

Romans 6: 8 Since we died with Christ, we believe that we WILL also live with Him,

Romans 8: 11 He who raised Christ from the dead WILL also bring your mortal bodies to life through His Spirit who lives in you.

I John 3:2 We know that when He appears, we will be like Him because we will see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself just as He is pure.

Did Abraham believe a gospel in which the Messiah was coming to earth?

Or did Abraham only believe a promise about some of his children always owning the land?

John 8: 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham who died? Even the prophets died. Who do You pretend to be?” 54 “If I glorify Myself,” Jesus answered, “My glory is nothing. My Father—you say about Him, ‘He is our God’—He is the One who glorifies Me.55 You’ve never known Him, but I know Him. If I were to say I don’t know Him, I would be a liar like you. But I do know Him, and I keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham was overjoyed that he WOULD SEE MY DAY. Abraham saw my day and rejoiced.”

Abraham and Job and David maybe did NOT see the difference between Christ’s first and second coming?

Job 19: 25 But I know my living Redeemer,
and He will stand on the dust at last.
26 Even after my skin has been destroyed,
yet I will see God in[l] my flesh.
27 I will see Him myself;
my eyes will look at Him, and not as a stranger.

Luke 2:27 Guided by the Spirit, Simeon entered the temple complex. When the parents brought in the child Jesus,
Simeon took Jesus up in his arms, praised God, and said:
29 Now, Master, You can dismiss Your slave in PEACE as You promised.

34 Then Simeon blessed them and told His mother Mary: “Indeed, this child is destined to cause the fall and rise of many in Israel and to be a sign that will be opposed– 35 and a SWORD will pierce even you— the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed.”

Every king and politician has opposition, but this King has everybody (all of us) for His enemies—He reveals the thoughts of our hearts
Will Mary also be an enemy of Jesus? Or is the sword for Mary to see all His enemies?

Luke 2: 36 There was also a prophetess, Anna
Hannah, favored one….SHE WAS OF GREAT AGE, a widow for 84 years. She did not leave the temple complex, SERVING God night and day with FASTING AND PRAYERS. 38 At that very moment, she came up and began to THANK GOD and to speak about Him to all who were looking forward to the REDEMPTION OF JERUSALEM

Psalm 2: Why do the nations rebel
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth take their stand,
and the rulers conspire together
against the Lord and His Anointed One:
3 “Let us tear off their chains
and free ourselves from their restraints.”
4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord ridicules them.
5 Then the Lord speaks to them in His anger
and terrifies them in His wrath:
6 “I have consecrated My King
on Zion, My holy mountain.”

7 I will declare the Lord’s decree:
He said to Me, “You are My Son;
today I have become Your Father.
8 Ask of Me,
and I will make the nations Your inheritance
and the ends of the earth Your possession

Psalm 22 But I am scorned and despised by people.
7 Everyone who sees me mocks me;
they sneer and shake their heads:
8 “He relies on the Lord.
let the Lord rescue him.”
9 You took me from the womb,
making me secure while at my mother’s breast.
10 I was given over to You at birth.
You have been my God from my mother’s womb.
Many bulls open their mouths against me—
lions, mauling and roaring.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are disjointed;
my heart is like wax,
melting within me.
15 My strength is dried up like baked clay;
my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth.
You put me into the dust of death.
16 A gang of evildoers has closed in on me;
they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones;
people look and stare at me.
18 They divided my garments among themselves,
and they cast lots for my clothing.

Psalm 110–This is the declaration of the Lord
to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

1. Jesus was not saved from dying, because Jesus did die. 2. Jesus was saved from death after Jesus died. 3. Jesus did not die spiritually. 4. Jesus never needed to be saved after “spiritually dying” 5. Jesus was saved THROUGH death.

Romans 6: 9 because we know that Christ, having been raised FROM THE DEAD, will not die again. Death no longer rules over Him. 10 For in light of the fact that He died, He died to sin once for all

1. Jesus died because of the sins of the elect imputed. 2 Jesus was not saved from having a human body. 3. Jesus was saved from being dead by His bodily resurrection

I Corinthians 15: 23 But each in his own order—Christ first, afterward at His coming those who belong to Christ.

The elect are justified through Christ’s death when God imputes that death to them.

Romans 4:25 died because of our sins, and raised because of our justification

If all the elect were not going to be justified, then Christ would not have been raised, but Romans 4:25 does not prove that all the elect have been justified

http://www.opc.org/os.html?article_id=65

2 Cor. 5:8, in context
1. The hope expressed in the context is that of resurrection (2 Cor. 4:14);
2. The “earthly tent” is our present mortal body (5:1a);
3. The “building from God” , the “lasting house in heaven” (5:1b) is our future resurrection body;
4. The clothing metaphor (2-4) elsewhere is used of the resurrection (1Cor. 15:53-54);
5. The “swallowing up” of the “mortal” by “life” (5) occurs at the resurrection (1Cor. 15:54);
6. It is in anticipation of this hope that we “groan” (2,4 c.f. Rom. 8:22f);
7. Paul’s use of such terms as “naked” (c.f. 1Cor. 15:36-27 with 42 and following) and “unclothed” describe the intermediate state and it is clear from the passage under consideration that Paul does not desire to be in this state (3,4) despite how Paul’s Greek contemporaries thought.

http://kenfortier.com/site/images/dickinson/XXXV%20No%2011.pdf

In 2 Corinthians 5 , Paul does not want “nakedness”. He wants the body from heaven, which is the resurrection body. And Paul’s not going to get that body until Jesus comes again. If Jesus does not come again, if there is no resurrection, then we would all perish.
I Corinthians 15: 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Therefore, those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished

Until the day of Christ’s second coming arrives, dead Christians sleep, which means that they are dead. It does not mean that only their bodies are dead, because their minds are also dead until resurrection. Genesis 2:7 teaches that dust plus breath (life from God) results in a “living soul” ( a living person).

The one thief asked to be remembered (favored) on the last day, in paradise. But Jesus promised him that very day, that the thief would enter the kingdom on that day. It’s not only a matter of “moving the comma” but a matter of remembering where Jesus was when Jesus died that day. Acts 2 clearly tells us that Jesus was in Hades (Sheol, the grave), and so we need to think about what the thief asked and what Jesus answered.

Moses and Elijah were not alive at the Mount of Transfiguration—if they were, then there would be no need for Jesus to come again or for them to be raised from the dead. If Moses and Elijah did not have bodies, how could they be seen by the disciples? Was it a vision, or was it a separate resurrection so that Abraham and Moses do not have to wait for that day with the rest of us? (read Hebrews 11:39-40)

These two old songs are simply not biblical—
When His chosen ones shall gather to their home beyond the skies,
And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there”

(The Old Rugged Cross) “Then He’ll call me some day, to my home far away….

Calvin—the conclusion usually drawn is, that believing souls were shut up in an intermediate state or prison, because Christ says that, by his ascension into heaven, the place will be prepared. But the answer is easy. This place is said to be prepared for the day of the resurrection; for by nature mankind are banished from the kingdom of God…. we will not enjoy this great blessing, until he come from heaven the second time. The condition of the fathers after death, therefore, is not here distinguished from ours.

https://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom35.iv.i.html

Being Human Does Not Mean Being a Sinner

April 23, 2017

I Corinthians 15: 42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead:
Sown in corruption, raised in incorruption;
43 sown in dishonor, raised in glory;
sown in weakness, raised in power;
44 sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.

47 The first man was from the earth
and made of dust;
the second man is[n] from heaven.
48 Like the man made of dust,
so are those who are made of dust;
like the heavenly man,
so are those who are heavenly.
49 And just as we have borne
the image of the man made of dust,
we will also bear
the image of the heavenly man.

How did Adam sin in the first place without being a corrupt sinner?
I don’t know

But I do know that Jesus became also human and is still also human
without ever sinning or even being able to sin

“being able to sin ” does not define “being human”

to be “human” is to be “in the image of God”

Does this mean that God has always been “human” like?

Colossians 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has enabled you to share in the saints’ inheritance in the light. 13 God the Father has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son He loves. 14 We have redemption, the forgiveness of sins, in God the Son.
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn over all creation.
16 For everything was created by God the Son,
in heaven and on earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions
or rulers or authorities—
all things have been created through the Son and for the Son
17 God the Son is before all things,
and by Him all things hold together.
18 God the Son is… the firstborn from the dead,
in order to come to have
first place in everything.
19 For God was pleased to have
all His fullness dwell in the Son
20 and through the Son to reconcile
everything to Himself
by making peace
through the blood of His cross—
whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Romans 6 is about Christ the public representative of the elect first being under condemnation, being under sin and death. Romans 6:7 “For one who has died has been justified from sin. 8 Now since we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death NO LONGER has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died HE DIED TO SIN once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.

Christ was never under grace and is still not under grace. Christ was under the law because of the imputed sins of the elect. Romans 6 is about Christ’s condemnation by the law and His death as satisfaction of that law. Christ after His resurrection is no longer “under law”. Christ’s elect, after their legal identification IN TIME with Christ’s death, are also no longer “under law”.

The death of the justified elect is the SAME legal death that Christ died. The “definitive resurrection” of the elect in Romans 6 is the result of being set apart with Christ (and His death) from being under law.

Christ was never under the power of sin in the sense of being unable not to sin. Christ was always unable to sin. The only way Christ was ever under the power of sin is by being under the guilt of sin. The guilt of the elect’s sin was legally transferred by God to Christ. Christ’s death to sin was death to the guilt of sin, and since the elect are IN TIME united with His death, the death of the elect is also a death to the guilt of sin. Romans 6:7: “For one who has died has been justified from sin.”

Docetism Says that Jesus was Not Really Human and Did Not Really Die

October 6, 2016

When Jesus was a baby, He didn’t sleep all that well at the beginning. The baby Jesus kept waking up his mom

Jesus was tortured to death, but Jesus is not still being tortured, and Jesus was not tortured for three days after He died.

Jesus had told his disciples that He would not be asking the Father to save him “from this hour,” because it was “for this reason” that he had “come to this hour” (John 12:27). What Jesus did ask was that the Father glorify his name, and the Father answered: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again,”

Jesus told them that this voice had spoken for their sake because the time had come for “the judgment of this world, “when the ruler of this world will be driven out. And when Jesus was “lifted up from the earth,” he would “draw all people to himself. That was his way of indicating the kind of death he would die In the garden of Gethsemane, Peter drew his sword in an effort to protect Jesus from arrest, but Jesus told him: “Put your sword back into its sheath,” because Jesus willed: “to drink the cup that the Father has given me” (

Calvin said that the physical death of Jesus would not save anybody, Calvin said it was God’s torture of Jesus that saved but Calvin also said that the torture was before Jesus died

Calvin: “If Christ had died only a bodily death ,it would have been ineffectual. No—it was expedient at the same time for him to undergo the severity of God’s vengeance, to appease his wrath and satisfy his just judgment.” 2.16.10.

Calvin–“Nothing had been done if Christ had only endured corporeal death. In order to interpose between us and God’s anger, and satisfy his righteous judgment, it was necessary that he should feel the weight of divine vengeance. Whence also it was necessary that he should engage, as it were, at close quarters with the powers of hell and the horrors of eternal death. … … Hence there is nothing strange in its being said that he descended to hell, seeing he endured the death which is inflicted on the wicked by an angry God. It is frivolous and ridiculous to object that in this way the order is perverted, it being absurd that an event which preceded burial should be placed after it. But after explaining what Christ endured in the sight of man, the Creed appropriately adds the invisible and incomprehensible judgment which he endured before God, to teach us that not only was the body of Christ given up as the price of redemption, but that there was a greater and more excellent price—that he bore in his soul the tortures of condemned and ruined man. ”

Calvin argued, that In ADDITION TO his physical suffering, Christ endured an “invisible and incomprehensible judgment” and paid “a greater and more excellent price in suffering in his soul the terrible moments of a condemned and forsaken man.” 2.16.10.

Calvin does not deny the physical death of Christ but Calvin assumes that Christ went straight to heaven, and Calvin adds something else to the human physical death of Christ. Some today teach that there would be “no hope without” vicarious law-keeping imputed ADDED TO Christ’s human physical death. Calvin taught that it was the pre-death sufferings of Christ which really made the propitiation, and NOT the human physical death.

What happens to the “Calvinist extra” (deity not united to humanity) if Christ’s deity is present in two places, not only with His dead body but also with his “human spirit in heaven”? Why object to Lutheran ideas about the ubiquity of the humanity (by communication of attributes with the deity) once you have agreed to humanity present with deity in two places?

F F Bruce–One symptom of the docetic tendency appears in the description of our Lord’s manhood as ‘heavenly humanity’…Writing in 1901, W. B. Neatby said, ‘A year or two ago I heard an address from a Brother of the Open Section, who actually taught that Christ did not die from crucifixion, but by a mere miraculous act. Or C. F. Hogg’s pamphlet, The Traditions and the Deposit: ‘What He did not know, He knew that He did not know’

http://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/ffb/humanity_bruce.pdf

Smeaton, Atonement As Taught By Himself, p 78—The Son of God took sin upon Him, and bore it simultaneously with the taking of the flesh, nay, in a sense even prior to the actual fact of the incarnation. The peculiar character of the Lord’s humanity, which was, on the one hand, pure and holy, and yet, on the other, a curse-bearing humanity, plainly shows that in some sense He was the sin-bearer from the moment of His sending, and, therefore, even prior to His actual incarnation.

Smeaton–And when it is said that God sent His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin condemned sin in the flesh, we have the very same thing…Sin was borne by God, not alone in the sense of forbearance, but in such a sense that it was laid on the sin-bearer, to be expiated by the divine Son. Thus the Lamb of God appeared without inherent sin or taint of any kind, but never without the sin of others. The sin of man was not firsti mputed to Him or borne by Him when He hung on the cross, but in and with the assumption of man’s nature.

Smeaton—The very form of a servant, and His putting on the likeness of sinful flesh, was an argument that sin was already transferred to Him and borne by Him; and not a single moment of the Lord’s earthly life can be conceived of in which He did not feel the harden of the divine wrath which must otherwise have pressed on us for ever.
Because He bore sin, and was never seen without it, it may be affirmed that the MORTALITY which was comprehended in the words, “Thou shalt surely die”—that is, all that was summed up in the wrath and curse of God,—was never really separated from Him.

Smeaton–As the sin-bearer, He all through life discerned and felt the penal character of sin, the sense of guilt, not personal, but as the surety could realize it, and the obligation to divine punishment for sins not His own, but made His own by an official action; and they who evacuate of their true significance these deep words, bears the sins” allowing Christ to have no connection with sin, and only dwelling on His purity and spotless innocence as our example—they who will not have Him as a sin-bearer—are the most sacrilegious.

There are dangers to describing sin as corruption instead of guilt, because guilt is cause of inability. There is great error in describing “made sin” as the “spiritual death” of Christ. Christ did not become corrupt, and Christian do not become righteous by infusion or by imparting (one more extra nature ) but by God’s legal imputation. …..

If Christ died spiritually, then Christ Needed to be Regenerated

Glenn Peoples—many reject the view that Jesus atoned for sin by suffering in hell after death . The problem, however, is that they still assume that the punishment for sin is suffering the wrath of God in the form of torment, and so the solution, whatever it is, is assumed to be that Jesus suffers that torment somewhere, either on the cross or in hell – and since it wasn’t in hell it was on the cross.

Did Jesus Talk more about Gehenna than He did about the Kingdom from Heaven?

January 18, 2016

http://rightreason.org/2010/did-jesus-preach-hell-more-than-heaven/

Walvoord—All the references to gehenna, except James 3:6, are from the lips of Jesus Christ himself…” [ “The Literal View” in William Crockett (ed.), Four Views on Hell (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1992), 19-20.]

Glenn Peoples—“all the instances” of gehenna, in the Gospels actually amounts to very few. As it is a very Jewish word (a Greek term derived from a Hebrew word referring to the Valley of Hinnom),

Matthew 7:19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” Glenn Peoples– I’m inclined to think that it’s not even a reference to the afterlife, but to the false teachers in Judaism who are going to be cut out of the kingdom in a judgement culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem. But – in spite of no obvious indicators in the context – let’s say that it’s a reference to punishment in the afterlife. If that’s what it is, then bear in mind that there’s also teaching here about acceptance in God’s kingdom too—“the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

Matthew 13:30, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.” In verses 44 and 45 Jesus gives a couple more parables of the kingdom of heaven where only the positive side is mentioned. Then in the same chapter, in verses 47-50, Jesus compared the kingdom of heaven to a fishing net that caught good and bad fish. The good fish are kept and stored, but the bad fish are thrown away. Jesus says that this is like the way the evil will be thrown into a “fiery furnace.”

In Matthew 22:1-14, Jesus compared the kingdom of heaven to a wedding feast…. Most of the people in the story get to remain at the wedding banquet. But the king orders his servants to take one guest and “cast him into the outer darkness.”

In the parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30), two of the master’s servants, who used what he had given them wisely, are told to enter the joy of their master. The last one is sent “into the outer darkness.”

At the conclusion of the story of the sheep and goats, we read of the two types of people, “and these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into the lasting life of the age to come,

That’s five examples, plus the four contexts where the actual word gehenna is used, so we have nine in total. For three years of public teaching, nine times is not very often. Jesus taught on final punishment, but he didn’t say about it what many evangelicals believe about it.

It would hardly be fair to do a search for a subject in the letters of John and a search for a subject in the Gospels to see who cared more about a subject– John or Jesus! Jesus taught more about most of the things that he taught about than he did about hell, things like showing love to our neighbor, for example, or the importance of concern for the poor and outcast, the way we use money, or even the historical judgement of God that was about to come upon Jerusalem.

Glenn Peoples–“It’s a very Stoic sounding approach—not only did Jesus talk more about hell than other people, but also Jesus talked more about hell than about the kingdom of resurrection and lasting life and His gift of the forgiveness of sins, The beatitudes of Matthew 5 alone would tip the scales heavily. Then we have the treasures in heaven that \in Matthew 6, in others Gospels we have the party thrown for the returned prodigal son…””

Mark McCulley: Preachers (often more into rhetoric than truth) beat their chests and say, “I don’t like it either but it’s the truth.” Most of the preachers, including the “Reformed”, justify it all by saying that God also desired the salvation of the non-elect, and that Jesus was “available” to everybody but that “hell was the default” unless you “accepted Jesus”. Saying that Jesus talked about the destruction of the non-elect more than Jesus talked about resurrection life is NOT THE TRUTH!

Jesus talked more about gehenna than the apostle Paul did because the apostle Paul never talked about gehenna. But almost every reference by Jesus to gehenna in Matthew’s Gospel is coupled with a reference to entrance into the kingdom. Repent, the kingdom is at hand! So the count is about even between blessing and curse when we add up the texts that do refer to gehenna. But there are plenty of other texts that refer to God’s gift of salvation to the elect. For example, the non-elect are not even mentioned in texts like Romans 5 or in Romans 3:22-24. When we think of “judgment”, we must not only think of the condemnation of the non-elect but also about the fact that God’s justification of the elect is also “judgment”

John 5:21 And just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son also gives life to anyone He wants to. 22 The Father, in fact, judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all people will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. 24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life. 25 “I assure you: An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted to the Son to have life in Himself. 27 And He has granted Him the right to pass judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

The death of Jesus is never called “sleep”

January 13, 2016

Jesus died but did not perish. The death of Jesus is never called “sleep”. Those who die outside of Christ will perish on judgment day. Those who die in Christ will sleep until Jesus comes and raises them from the dead.

The punishment for sin is death, not only what happens before death. The wages of sin is death. The soul that sins shall die. The degrees of infinity thing does not impress me much, if people who talk about that are saying that the non-elect being punished are never quite punished enough, even when they are punished more than others.

David Wells, Christianity Today, March 20 1987 — “If God is as good as the Bible says, if his character is as pure, if his life is as infinite, then sin is infinitely unpardonable and not merely momentarily mischievous. To be commensurate with the offense, God’s response must be correspondingly infinite. Annhilationism instead looks instead for a finished, finite, temporal response. An infinite response, however, is what we see happening at the cross. Was Jesus annihilated? Jesus could exhaust infinite punishment because he himself was the infinite God? Jesus did not bear a punishment MERELY LIKE that which sinners deserved. Jesus did not bear a death that was MERELY ANALOGOUS to theirs..”

Mark: To be “commensurate”, is Jesus still dying on the cross and will He do so forever?

If Jesus is not still dying on the cross, how is His death even LIKE that of non-elect people dying but never getting dead?

Where does the Bible talk about “infinity”? And where does the Bible talk about the suffering before the death being “infinite”? When did the “infinite punishment” of Jesus begin and when did it end?

If Christ only suffered an equivalent of “eternal torment in Hell”, does that mean that God’s (nominalist) grace arbitrarily (merely, only) “accepted” the punishment of Christ as the same?

Since the punishment of the non-elect will never be finished, does that mean that the punishment of the non-elect will never be infinite?

Since there will always be more to repay, does “I will repay” mean that “I will have never repaid”?

If duration of the pain is the real punishment, why is there any need to die after that punishment is done?

If the punishment is never done, so that the condemned can never die, why does the Bible teach that the wages of sin is death?

When you translate, the result is a translation.

When you destroy, the result is destruction.

When you finish dying, you are dead.

If you never finish dying, you are not yet dead.

http://rethinkinghell.com/audio/meta/notes/demler_handout.pdf

Either Dead in Christ or Not

March 10, 2015

Galatians 5: 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus HAVE CRUCIFIED THE FLESH with its passions and desires

If we were to ever become dead in Christ

It would not have been us who did it
it would be by God’s imputation

If we were to ever become dead in Christ
We would count in a new way and not hang our future
On a divine life in us

If we were to ever become dead in Christ
We would count as loss
What we used to count worship

If we were to ever become dead in Christ
We would have had it Done to us
Death is suffered

If we were to ever stand still in Christ
What we would have lost is making outcomes
Depend on God causing us to obey

We do not hope for righteousness
We hope because of righteousness
Having passed from death through a death imputed

Died with Christ” (or “died in Christ”) means Christ died instead of the justified elect, but the result is that the person the elect used to be, that person is dead, over with, done trying to help build their own righteousness. That old person is not here now anymore. The justified elect person has nothing to gain by their works. And nothing to lose.

Galatians 2: 19 For through the law I died to the law, in order to live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives with regard to me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Being crucified with Christ and living now in the flesh by faith are two sides of the same thing—you can’t put on the new without putting off the old. The Romans 6 baptism into the death is NOT God’s imputation of the sins of the elect to Christ—-God’s baptism of the elect into the death of Christ is the same as God’s imputation of Christ’s death (Christ’s righteousness) to the elect.

I Corinthians 1:25 For the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it (the gospel) is the POWER of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it (the gospel) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

I Corinthians 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God