Justification and Comfort for All who Believe the Gospel

Posted October 2, 2019 by markmcculley
Categories: faith

Tags: ,

Tianqi Wu– BEFORE we were converted, we were SLAVES OF SIN. IF we have been joined to Christ’s death, then we are not under Law but under grace. People who are slaves of sin and under law WERE NOT YET JUSTIFIED. There is no room for a “justified” but “unconverted” persons, because there is no such a thing as being “under grace”, “dead to sin”, “alive to God” but still a “slave of sin”. This exposes the fundamental falsehood of certain versions of “gospels” that are now tolerated under the name of “different views on
timing of justification”.

John 3:18 The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned—he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 7: 4 You yourselves were put to death in relation to the law through the crucified body of Christ in order that you belong to another—to Him who was raised from the dead—in order that we bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the flesh we bore fruit for death.

Because Christ’s death to sin was legally applied to us, we were put to death in relation to law and in that way justified before God. We were not always justified. Christ’s death was not always legally applied to us and we were not always justified.

It was not enough that the sins of the elect be imputed to Christ. Christ had to die to sin, Christ was not always dead to sin
When we were in the flesh, we did not know the gospel
When we were in the flesh, our election did not mean that we already belonged to Christ.
When we were in the flesh, we belonged to another and bore fruit for another
When we were in the flesh, we were not yet justified

Romans 8: 7 The understanding of the flesh is hostile to God because the understanding of the flesh does not submit itself to God’s law,
for it is unable to do so. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God …But the Spirit is life because of righteousness

Those who are living after the flesh are not justified yet.
Those who are living after the flesh do not believe the gospel.
Those who do not believe the gospel are not justified yet.

Denying that justification is through faith in the gospel is an antinoimian denial of the gospel revealed by brother apostles in the Bible. The power of the gospel is that elect sinners come to understand the
nature of jkstification . Teaching justification before or without understanding of justification is not merely about “timing”. It is ignoring what the Bible teaches about the nature of justification

A change of our legal state before God occurs through a “baptism” into Christ’s death.

Romans 6:4 Therefore, we were buried with Him through baptism into death,

Romans 6:10-11 For in that Christ died, Christ died to sin once for all time; but in that Christ now lives again, Christ lives to God. Count yourselves to be truly dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Can there be a time lag between the change of legal state and the change of heart? Can a person have a changed legal state without a changed heart at the SAME time? The Romans 6 text does NOT allow for it

Romans 6:17-18 But thanks be to God that you were slaves of sin, but you obeyed from the heart the form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you were enslaved to
righteousness.

1) Conversion is clearly in this text – “obeyed from the heart the
form of doctrine…”

2) Yet, conversion alone cannot account for the radical language used here, unless we think conversion is perfection. What is in view includes a change of heart, but also a change of legal state, in which
one’s sins are NO LONGER imputed to them..

Paul says BEFORE we were converted, we were SLAVES OF SIN. Paul also says IF we have been joined to Christ’s death, then we are not under
Law, but UNDER GRACE. There is no room for a “justified” but “unconverted” person, because there is no such a thing as being “under grace”, “dead to sin”, “alive to God” but still a “slave of sin”.

John 3:18 The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.

All the future sins of the elect were paid up by Jesus
but the sins we have not yet committed are not yet forgiven by God

those who teach that redemption is not accomplished if not already legally applied are teaching a false antinomian gospel. About 2000 years ago, Christ by His death accomplished by death (point
in time) redemption. But this redemption was imputed by God to Abraham (at a point in time before Abraham was circumcised) long before Christ “died to sin”, (Romans 6:9-10) . This was on the same timeline (not some timeless zone)

Today, elect sinners ( like me) are imputed by God with the redemption (accomplished long before I existed) when this “objective something” redemption is legally applied by God, I believe the gospel and I am declared justified by God (again, not timelessly, but on the same time line).

Christ’s obtaining the redemption is not the same as God imputing that righteousness. The gospel error says that righteousness is not really obtained until it is imputed. The gospel error teaches Christ’s death is already imputed to all for whom Christ died. But the correlation of faith and justification is in time. The correlation can be found nowhere else. Justification through faith alone does not only mean that faith is a gift of God. Justification through faith alone means that faith is not works. Justification through faith in the gospel alone means no justification apart from faith in the gospel alone. Faith in Christ’s
death alone excludes faith in what God has enabled us to do. Faith in Christ’s death aone excludes faith in our faith. Faith in Christ’s death alone excludes any idea that “faith is a work”

Romans 3: 26 God presented Him as a propitation through faith in His blood, in order that God would be righteous and declare righteous then one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 3:28 a sinner is justified through faith apart from the works of the law.

Since we know that assurance is found in knowing and believing the gospel, why is this reactionary gospel error so determined to say that people already justified are still believing the false gospel that the flesh
believes? Even though those who teach the gospel error of justification without the gospel are divided among themselves about if all thse “justified already” ” will be converted to the gospel in this life, what is the practical point of reacting to Arminianism by down-playing the significance of justification?

If those already justified are still practically seen as unholy because of their not knowing the gospel yet, what is the day to day consequence of putting all the focus on regeneration (which happens now) and NOT on justification (which according to their error could not possibly happen now) ? Why are these guys insisting on their view of the nature of justification, but in the day to day not bothering with any implications of their view? Do they want to speak only comfort and peace to anybody? If they want to say that faith in the gospel has nothing to do with justification, why are they
disturbing the peace about “spiritual life” and faith in the gospel? Won’t that cause some people doubt and discomfort?

The gospel promises justification to all those who believe the gospel

The gospel does not promise peace to mark mcculley

The gospel does not promice peace to all those who speak peace to mark mcculley

Some of these preachers are telling us–it’s just not an issue, because it has no implications, and so that’s why I am going to call you an Arminian conditionalist if you don’t say that all the elect are now already justified!

It is possible to be correct about the extent of the redemption (only for the elect) without being correct about the nature of the redemption (the sins of the elect were imputed to Christ, and Christ died under the wrath of God for those sins) But it is not possible to be incorrect about the extent of the redemption (teaching redemption for all sinners) and ever possibly be correct about the nature of redemption ( because this view will teach a redemption that does not redeem)

In a similar way, it is possible to be correct about the extent of justification (only the elect will be justified) and still be incorrect about the nature of justification (teaching that all the
elect were always justified, or denying that Christ –the elect one-was ever under the legal wrath and death of God)

Acts 13:39 everyone who BELIEVES IN this man is justified from everything that you could not be justified from

Acts 13: The Gentiles REJOICED and glorified the message of the Lord, and all who had been appointed to lasting life BELIEVED
“Appointed to lasting life” is election, not justification

if God never saw any of your sins, God would not need to justify you, because you would need no justification. But even for those who do sin, God does not justify all sinners
if you were never condemned, then God will never justify you.

Even though the sheep are always sheep, elect sheep are NOT free from condemnation before being “baptized into Christ”. Justification through faith alone does not only mean that faith is a gift of God. Justification through faith alone means that faith is not works. Justification through faith in the gospel alone means no justification apart from faith in the gospel alone. Faith in Christ’s death alone excludes faith in what God has enabled us to do. Faith in Christ’s death alone excludes faith in our faith. Faith in Christ’s death alone excludes any idea that “faith is a work” . Romans 3: 26 God presented Him as a propitation through faith in His blood , in order that God would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 3:28 a sinner is justified through faith apart from the works of the law.

The gospel is not justification only.
The gospel is not regeneration only.
Justification and regeneration are not the same thing
All those who are justified are also regenerate
All those who are not regenerate yet are also not justified yet
All those living in the flesh (still believing the false gospel) are
not justified yet

Agreeing not to talk about “eternal justification” is like agreeing not to talk about “universal atonement”

1. agree that we are both Christians
2. agree to disagree
3. agree not to discuss further

It’s very much like an Arminian saying, first agree that I am saved, and then we can talk about the Arminianism
Second , agree that we are brothers, and after that there’s no point to talking about Arminianism, so let’s let it all go

From a letter to John Reisinger after my conversion—-I know you are not an universalist like I was. You will not say that all humans are your brothers and sisters. You are very right to focus on the elder brother’s refusal to say that the one who came home was his brother. My question: WERE they brothers? If the elder brother goes on like he is, never repenting of his legalism, is he in the family of God? Your assumption, suited to your purpose of attacking “these people” who say that Arminians are lost, is that both are brothers. But that is a false assumption.

I do not know need to know who is and is not non-elect to tell the truth that Christ did not die for those who reject the the promise and command of the gospel. I do not need to know who is elect to shout the glad tidings that all the elect will hear the voice of the Shepherd instead of the voices of Arminians. If you really do think that God saves people while still leaving them thinking that salvation is conditioned on them, then your God is very much like the God of the Arminian. https://markmcculley.wordpress.com/2019/04/18/from-the-year-2000-my-letter-to-john-reisinger/

What’s the difference between being an universalist and teaching justification only for some but before these some know the gospel?
Perhaps the only difference is cruelty

some say–it’s just not an issue, because it has no implications, and so that’s why I am going to call you an Arminian conditionalist if you talk about “justification through faith” or “the righteousness of faith”

A gospel that tells some sinners to “start believing that you had life before you heard the gospel” is a false gospel.

God did not ask any sinner for their input on God’s decision to impute their sins to Jesus Christ, and all the sins that would ever be imputed to Christ were already imputed to Christ by God and then satisfied for by Christ’s death. Assurance that I am justified is not an objective proposition of the gospel. Assurance that I believe the gospel is not an objective proposition of the gospel.
Before or after you believe, the gospel never says “ you have believed the gospel” “I now have life” is not part of the gospel. The gospel is not to be explained only to those those have life.
If a person tells us that “well I have believed the gospel but I still am not sure that I am justified yet”, they are in reality saying “I have not yet believed the gospel”. If they had believed the gospel, they would believe the part of the gospel that says “as many as who believe the gospel are justified”

Tianqi Wu–The gospel error that teaches justification before God without faith in the gospel reduces the gospel and its power to create faith to only a delayed assurance of a justification that happened before you are born. Those who teach that all the elect were justified when Christ died are teaching by implication that the OT elect were never justified in their lifetime and that the NT elect were never condemned. Though those who teach this gospel error may rant at the implications of teaching universal atonement, and though they not talk about the implications of their own error, those implications neverthess remain. They are teaching justification without the gospel, even if they impose their system on the Bible to talk about different justifications (as they see fit)

The idea of “born justified but unconverted” is something utterly foreign to the Bible, which teaches that those not yet submitted to the gospel are condemned already, children of wrath, under curse, under law, slaves of sin, not righteous, not under grace, not belonging to Christ, not children of God.The gospel error that says “yes by nature but never in history” is not a distinction you will find in the Bible.

Tianqi Wu– Justification is not God’s response to the Spirit-produced faith of the elect sinner. Rather, Justification comes with faith together to the unbelieving elect who has been legally united by God to the Christ who had died for them. When the elect are “baptized into Christ’s death” by God, God justifies them because God now sees a righteousness in their account, and simultaneously God sends the Spirit into them to convert them to the gospel. Justification before God is not the same thing as conversion in the heart to believe the gospel . Believing the gospel is not the righteousness. The righteousness is not repenting of living by the flesh and believing the false gospel. But God acts in history in both ways, not only inside us but also outside us with regard to us ( not only timelessly). Where God has not yet imputed Christ’s death, sinners live by the flesh. Where God has not yet imputed Christ’s death, sinners are still in condemnation.

Romans 4:24-25 “righteousness will be counted to us who believe in Him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was handed over BECAUSE OF our trespasses and raised BECAUSE OF our justification.”
This text of brother Paul does not mean that all the elect were already justified before they even existed. This means that God’s legal APPLICATION of Christ’s ACCOMPLISHMENT IN HISTORY IN DEATH is made certain. Brother Paul is not teaching that Accomplishment and Application must or will happen at the same time. And certainly Romans 4:24-25 is not teaching that there is no accomplishment if that accomplished is not immediately applied.
Nor is brother Paul in Romans 4:24-25 teaching that Christ was never really imputed with sins or condemned under God’s wrath for those sins imputed.

Galatians 2: 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in regard to me. The life I now live in the body,I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Again, Galatians 2 is not teaching that all the elect existed as persons before they were born. . Some few “primitive baptists” have taught this philosophy, but it’s not what Galatians is saying. Nor is
Galatains 2 saying that the elect at some point no longer exist as persons. Brother Paul is teaching that Christ is no longer imputed with sins, even though Christ was once imputed with the sins of the elect and died for those sins. Christ now lives, and when that death is imputed by God to them, they are “crucified with Christ.”
Romans 6: 9-10 Christ, having been raised from the dead, will not die again. Death no longer rules over Christ 10 For in light of the fact that Christ died, Christ died to sin once for all time.

Romans 8: 7 The understanding of the flesh is hostile to God because the understanding of the flesh does not submit itself to God’s law, for it is unable to do so. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God …But the Spirit is life because of righteousness

Those who are living after the flesh are not justified yet
Those who are living after the flesh do not believe the gospel

Those who do not believe the gospel are not justified yet
The power of the gospel is that elect sinners come to understand the nature of justification
Teaching justification before or without understanding of justification is not merely about “timing”. It’s ignoring what the Bible teaches about the nature of justification

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The Cause is Justification, The Resulting Creation is Worship Pleasing to God.

Posted September 3, 2019 by markmcculley
Categories: good works, imputation

Tags: ,

Romans 7:4 You were put to death in relation to the law through the crucified body of the Messiah, in orer to belong to another—to Him who was raised from the dead—IN ORDER TO BEAR FRUIT FOR GOD.

Ephesians 2: 8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this salvation is not from yourselves. Salvation is God’s gift— 9 not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are His CREATION. We are created in Christ Jesus for GOOD WORKS

Those who are justified before God are not still ‘totally depraved”. Those who are justified before God now worship God acceptably.

Our Works and our Worship are not the Causes of our Salvation.

Work acceptable to God is one of the Results of Salvation.
Worship acceptable to God is one of the Results of Salvation.

Our Work and Worship are not Accepted by God as any part of our righteousness.
Our Work and Worship are Accepted by God because we ourselves have become justified before God.

Romans 6:17 Thank God that, although you used to be slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were transferred to.

The false gospel teaches the opposite of the true gospel. The false gospel say that, IF you don’t have to “keep paying the costs”, then your salvation can’t be worth much.

The false gospelasks— IF you didn’t accept your salvation by your own freedom, then just how valuable could your salvation be?

Although there is such a thing as “hating without a cause”, what the false gospel hates is the very idea of God loving the elect “without cause”. The false gospel wants to be in control of the cause of its salvation. If you didn’t pay for it, you stole it. If you didn’t work for it, you stole it.

This is why the false gospel teaches a salvation also by your own works. If you do not also work for your salvation, you can’t boast in it and that would make you a free loader socialist. Not working at all for your final salvation would leave you belonging to Jesus instead of Jesus giving you salvation partly in consideration of your work.

But let me copy here some Bible verses that teach about sinners being justified before God in order to then Worship God

Matthew 7:17 every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit.

Hebrews 13:15 Through Christ then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. 16 Do not neglect to do good and to share whatyou have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

I Peter 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a Holy Spirit house for a Holy priesthood, to offer up Spirit-controlled sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ”

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His CREATION. We are created in Christ Jesus for good works

Titus 2:14 Christ gave Himself FOR US to REDEEM US from all lawlessness and to cleanse for Himself a people for His own possession, eager to do good works.

1 Peter 2:12 Conduct yourselves honorably …so that in a case where they speak against you as those who do what is evil, they seeing your good works will glorify God on the day

The commands of Jesus Christ to those who are justified are NOT “only MORE GUILT FOR EVERYBODY.” If you reduce the law of God to your ability, then you reduce the law to nothing. The fulfillment of God’s law (by Christ’s death) was NOT the abolition of God’s law

Romans 6:11 consider yourselves NOW ALREADY dead to sin but NOW ALREADY alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Christ’s death is the object to which sinners are joined when they are justified. God’s imputation is the means by which sinners are joined to Christ’s death. The once for all death of Christ is not once for all sinners. The once for all death of Christ is once for all time. No other death justifies.

Therefore it is NOT Christ’s death PLUS our death which justifies. To be joined with the likeness of Christ’s death is to be legally placed in Christ’s death. Our regeneration is not the death.

Romans 8:3 God condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son in FLESH LIKE OURS under sin’s guilt and as a sin offering

Philippians 2: 5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,
6 who humbled Himself by becoming obedient
to the point of death— even to death on a cross

Romans 6:13 as those who ARE ALIVE from the dead, offer yourselves to God, and all the parts of yourselves to God as tools for righteousness

Galatians 3:27 you have put on Christ

Romans 13: 14 put on Christ
Galatians 5:1 you are free, be free
Galatians 5:25 since we live in the Spirit, then live in the Spirit

Ephesians 2: 6 Together with Christ Jesus God raised us

Colossians 2 12 You were also raised with Christ through faith in the working of God, who raised Christ from the dead.
13 God made you alive with Him and forgave us all our trespasses

But what does it matter if we work for God or worship God? If we are already justified before God, who cares if our work and worship are acceptable anyway?

Romans 3: 7 But if by my sin God’s truth is amplified to God’s glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, as some people slanderously claim we say, “Let us do what is evil in order that good will come”?

The answer to the question is NOT that “works and worship are necessary to find out if you are justified”

Romans 3:24 They are justified WITHOUT CAUSE by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus who God presented as a propitiation through faith in His blood

Those who are not justified before God cannot and do not worship God. Those who are justified before God can and do worship God, not only in some “the church in theory” but in real life.

Those with the false gospel think they already know what God is like. But while they are checking to see if Jesus is like the God in their heads, they forget to learn from Jesus what the real God of the Bible is like. They forget that God’s grace is not our works. They forget that our works are not the same thing as our God-given faith in the grace of the death and resurrection of Jesus.

The “church in theory” will only preach some things from the Bible. Its preachers will only teach from the Bible stuff they think is comforting and enouraging for “spiritual life”. Other things they say they will not “get into”. Because the law of Jesus is not the same as the gospel, they will say either that Jesus has no law or that we can all live together without any reference to any law from Jesus. If you are justified by Jesus, why is it necessary to hear anything else from Jesus? Why not simply try to be a little better in terms of the morality of those in the place where you live temporarily now on earth? Election to “go to heaven” they will preach, but what Christ commands as worship they will not teach. Why feel guilty for not doing what we can’t do anyway?

But this is a bad excuse for the truth. If we have already made it clear that justification before God is not a result of our works and worship, what are we saying if we don’t think we can even think about or teach work and worship acceptable to God? Is the problem that we ourselves think that the only way not to think of “good works” as our justification before God is to deny that we ever have any “good works”?

Romans 12 by the mercies of God, I urge you to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to discern what is the good, and PLEASING TO God.

Hebrews 13:15 through Christ let us continually offer up to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of our lips that confess His name. 16 Don’t neglect to do what is good and to share, for God is PLEASED such sacrifices

Philippians 4:18 But I have received everything in full, and I have an abundance. I am fully supplied, having received from Epaphroditus what you provided—a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God.

Colossians 1:10 in order that you walk worthy of the Lord, fully PLEASING to Him, bearing fruit in every good work and growing in the knowledge of God.

Hebrews 9:11 Christ has appeared, high priest of the GOOD THINGS THT HAVE COME (not of the old creation)

2 Corinthians 5:17 For those in Christ, there is a new creation. Old things have passed away, New things have come.

Philippians 3: 12 Not that I have already reached the goal, but I make every effort to take hold of the prize because I also have been taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 I do not consider myself to have taken hold of the goal. But one thing I do— Forgetting what is behind and reaching forward to what is ahead, 14 I pursue as my goal the prize promised by God’s call in Christ Jesus.

Faith Now and Sight On the Day of His Appearing

Posted August 3, 2019 by markmcculley
Categories: faith, resurrection

Tags: ,

Matthew 5:8 They shall see God

Romaans 13: 12 For now we see indistinctly as in a mirror
but then face to face.
Now I know in part,
but then I will know fully,
as I am fully known.

This past month I have received new implants in both my eyes during cataract surgeries. I am hoping for better vision.

But hopes for change in me is NOT the righteousness revealed by God’s gospel. The hope which “comes from righteousness” is hope for Christ’s appearing and our resurrection (in the future) when we will be given immortality.
This hope come from the rightousness. This hope is not ever to be confused with the righteousness itself obtained by Christ’s death (one time in the past) as the propitiation for the elect.

Galatians 5:5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness

The gospel is NOT that Christ died “for you”. Instead the gospel is that Christ’s death took away God’s wrath for all the sins of the elect (including unbelief before they believed the gospel). The gospel is also that Christ’s death purchased for the elect the faith to believe the true gospel. Assurance of justification is self-involving, because the gospel makes a promise to all who believe the gospel but ONLY to those who believe the gospel.

There is a difference between one’s legal state before God and one’s assurance of one’s legal state before God. Those sinners who are in an objective state of condemnation before God (even though all are commanded to obey God) cannot in any way obey God or do anything pleasing before God.

How can those without assurance of being in a justified state before God please God? A justified legal state does not become true because we believe that we are in a justified state. But there is no reason to assume any sinner is in a justified state if they do not yet believe the gospel and have assurance that they believe in the gospel.

John 5:24 I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has lasting life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

John 6:37 Everyone the Father gives Me will COME to Me, and the one who COMES to Me I will never cast out

Romans 8:30 Those who have been called were not always called but they stay called. Those who have been justified were not always justified but they stay justified. Christ had not always secured the permanent redemption (Hebrews 9), but now that Christ has secured that reconciliation, Christ is not still in the process of securing redemption. Christ is not still redeeming us with attempts to still make changes in us

Christ’s death paid the price for the justification of the elect and the justification of God in justifying the elect. Once that price is imputed to the elect, the elect are justified before God.

None of this fits with the false idea that the elect were never guilty before God. Nor does this justification by God’s imputation fit with the false idea that the faith necessary for justification is any part of the righteousness obtained by Christ’s death Christ’s death is not obedience to the law. Christ’s death is satisfaction to the law. Christ’s death is not abrogation of the law .

Completely corrupt people cannot and do not believe the gospel. God’s regeneration is not God’s righteousness but the regeneration that causes a person to believe the gospel is a result of God’s imputation of Christ’s righteousness

2 Peter 1:1 To those who have obtained a faith of equal blessing with ours THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the KNOWLEDGE of God and of Jesus our Lord. 3 God’s divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who CALLED us…God has given us very great and precious promises, so that through these promises you share in the divine nature, escaping the corruption that is in the world

Receiving the righteousness of Christ by God’s imputation is not like getting new implants that change us. What some call “vital union” is not “the new man” becoming part of us. Becoming the “new creation” ia becoming justified in Christ when God imputes Christ’s death to us. The lasting life of the age to come is not the new birth. The new birth causes us to believe the gospel, but the new birth is not Christ’s righteousness. The new birth is not a new nature

2 Timothy 4: 6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time for my departure is close. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 There is reserved for me in the FUTURE the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me ON THAT DAY, and not ONLY TO ME BUT TO ALL ll those who have loved His appearing.

The hope which comes from righteousness is Christ’s appearing and our resurrection when we will be given immortality. Luke 12: 36 You must be like people waiting for their master to RETURN from the wedding banquet so that when he comes and knocks, they can open the door for him at once. 37 Those slaves the master finds alert when he comes will be blessed

Melanchthon –The Colossians do not do good to the saints as if they were moneylenders, buying big profits with small favors The world is generous in hope of getting back. All gifts are greedy—-But the saints give because they value God’s will above the promised rewards. Their actions are not prompted by the desire to get something in return. For they know that all things have already been FREELY given and cannot be won through human effort. The magnitude of God’s reward to Christ’s death to the Colossians stirs them into doing good works, not to obtain future blessings, but because they believe themselves to have obtained so much already

Philippians 3:11 I will somehow reach the resurrection from among the dead.

Philippians 3:20 our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. 21 Christ will transform the body of our humble condition into the likeness of His glorious body, by the power that enables Him to subject everything to Himself.

There is no way out of the grave except by the resurrection at Christ’s appearing

Luke 9:29 As Jesus was praying, the appearance of His face changed, and His clothes became dazzling white. 30 Suddenly, two men were talking with Him—Moses and Elijah. 31 They appeared in glory and were speaking of His DEPARTURE which He was about to ACCOMPLISH in Jerusalem

Christ’s death was an “exodus” in which Christ was “lifted up”

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be LIFTED UP

John 12:33 Jesus said this to signify what kind of DEATH He was about to die. 34 Then the crowd replied to Jesus, “We have heard from the scripture that the Christ will remain forever. So how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? 35 Jesus answered, ‘The light will be with you only a little longer.’

I Timothy 6:4 to keep the command without fault or failure until the APPEARING of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 God will bring this about in His own time. God is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords,
16 the only One who has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light

Hebrews 9: 28 so also Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.

Hebrews 11:38 The world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and on mountains, hiding in caves and holes in the ground. 39 All these were approved through THEIR FAITH, but they did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for US, so that THEY would not be made perfect without US

I Thessaalonians 4:15 Those who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds to MEET the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

Justification is the legal right to the lasting life of the age to come but those who are already justified are not yet immortal.

Philippians 1:20 My eager expectation and hope is that I will not be ashamed about anything, but that now as always, with all boldness, Christ will be highly honored IN MY BODY, whether by life or by death.

Living in my body is gain for Christ and dying in my body is gain for Christ. 22 Now if I LIVE ON IN THE FLESH this means fruitful work for me. I don’t know which one I should choose. 23 I am being pressed.

If there are two choices (and not a third–Christ’s appearing) , and one is far better, where is the being “pressed”?

If we oontinue to live in the flesh, will Christ be with or “away” from us?

2 Corinthians 5:6 We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord

Philippians 1:24 but TO REMAIN IN THE FLESH s more necessary for you

Philippians 3:20 our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. 21 He will transform the body of our humble condition into the likeness of His glorious body

2 Corinthians 5: 2 Indeed, we groan in this body, desiring to put on our dwelling from heaven, 3 since, when we are clothed,we will not be found naked. 4 Indeed, we groan while we are in this tent, burdened as we are, because we do not want to be unclothed but clothed, in order that mortality be swallowed up by life.

The hope which comes from righteousness is Christ’s appearing and our resurrection when we will be given immortality

I John 2:15 the pride of present life is not from the Father, but is from the world

2 Corinthians 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight, 8 and we are confident and satisfied

2 Corinthians 5:16 From now on, then, we do not know anyone by the flesh way. Even if we have known Christ by the flesh,yet now we no longer know Christ by the flesh

Romans 1:16 The gospel is God’s power for salvation to everyone who BELIEVES ..The righteous will live by FAITH.

Romans 3:26 God declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is boasting? Boasting is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, on the contrary, by a law of faith. 28 Because we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works

Romans 9:32 They did not pursue righteousness by faith, but as if righteousness were by works.

Galatians 2:16 no one is justified by works but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus in order that we be justified by faith in Christ and not by works, because by works no human being will be justified.

Ephesians 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this salvation not from yourselves. Salvation is God’s gift— 9 not from works, so that no one can boast

I Corinthians 15:16 If the dead are not raised, Christ has not been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless and you are still in your sins.

The idea that only the immaterial can become immortal is a false doctrine contradicted by the Bible. If we are already there in heaven and if heaven is already here, then here is there and now is then, and preachers can say any stupid thing they think sounds good. But if the “all have immortal souls” preachers are correct, then we have absolutely no need to hope for Christ to leave there to come here to us or for our bodily resurrection

Now “we are away from the Lord”—- The Lord is in His spiritual material body in heaven, and therefore absent from us, away from us.

Though we ourselves are now still in our perishible bodies, now we believe the gospel and we no longer believe that God’s righteeousness consists in changes to us by infusion or impartation or implaantation. We no longer live by the flesh, but hope for resurrected flesh on the last day only because of Christ’s death imputd to us.

In the age to come, Christ will become present with us BODILY, and we will be risen bodily to see Christ (whatever that means)

Job 19 Then Job answered:
2 How long will you torment me
and crush me with words?
25 But I know my living Redeemer,
and He will stand on the dustat last.
26 Even after my skin has been destroyed,
yet I will see God in my flesh.
27 I will see Him myself;
my eyes will look at Him, and not as a stranger.
My heart longs within me.

I John 3: 2 Dear friends, we are God’s children now, and what we will
be has not yet been revealed. We know that when He appears, we will be
like Him because we will see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this
hope in Him purifies himself just as He is pure.

Only Comfort, and No Command “To Be Ye Reconciled”?

Posted July 23, 2019 by markmcculley
Categories: death, election

Tags: ,

2 Corinthians 5:10 All must appear before the juddgment of Christ– Therefore, because we know the fear of the Lord, we seek to persuade

John 5:24 Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has lasting life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 5:20 We PLEAD on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.” 2 Corinthians 6:2 now is the acceptable time. Now is the day of salvation

The preachers who only talk about about unregenerate people becoming regenerate are not talking about the good news of justification.
Those who think their gospel is good news that comforts everybody they preach to seem to think that the gospel tells sinners which sinners are elect

The gospel is not good news to those who have not yet believed the gospel.
Preachers are not to confuse the law with the gospel, and therefore they should teach clearly both law and gospel.

All sinners are commanded to believe the gospel, but the gospel tells nobody that they personally have believed the gospel. All sinners who have not yet believed the gospel are not only still unregenerate but still under God’s legal hostility Matthew 5:24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled with them.

What is reconciiliation?

If you go to your neighbor “to be reconciled”, this is not because your neighbor is at fault, but because you have done something wrong to your neighbor , which is why you need to go to your neighbor to obtain “reconciliation”. If all this could be reduced to you changing the attitude in your own heart, then you would need to get reconciliation from the neighbor. Therefore, reconciliation is not a regeneration or a change in our heart. Reconciliation is about alienation and enmity from the neighbor. Reconciliation is a solution to an external problem.

What can effectively be done later after the wrong was done? Between humans, we can do things. But when our wrong is against God, and then we go to God “to be reconciled to God”, there is nothing we can do.
What we need is not a change in our hearts, but a propitiation, a reconcilation, not something we are to do but something God has done to take away God’s wrath (from the elect).

But some predestinarian preachers deny the problem, and teach that only we have any enmity, and that God never had problem (in terms of wrath against elect sinners).

What is the Righteousness of God, 2019, Bill Parker p 145—“The only way the elect have ever been under God’s wrath is as they always stood legally in Christ…This means
that God’s elect have never personally been under God’s wrath.”

But this raises the next question: was Christ Himself ever under God’s wrath?

If God never had aay personal wrath to an elect sinner, what would be the need for such a thing as a reconciliation or propitiation to remove God’s wrath from Christ the surety ofeelect sinners? In what real historical way was Chrsit himself ever under law, beaaring gult, and needing to die for sins? If God never has any enmity to the elect—then our own Enmity is only our Problem, and we don’t need propitation or even expiation.

Who is at enmity? Are you at enmity with the other person? or is the other person at enmity with you? To define reconciliation, you have to define what the hositlity was. Romans 5:11 “We rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation

It is a giant OVER-REACTION to those who say that Christ was made corrupt to also deny that Christ was ever made legally guilty before God. Christ was not only “made incarnate” but “became the righteousness”? Or do you see Christ as having only been imputed with guilt in God’s purpose but never in history?. Romans 8:3 God condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son IN FLESH like ours under sin’s guilt, and for sin. Christ’s death was not only to take away the enmity of the elect in their hearts to God, Christ’s death was propitiation, legal appeasement because of God’s own LEGAL AND OBJECTIVE enmity to elect sinners.

Ephesians 2: 13 “But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away…”

by our hostility or by God’s hostility?

“have been brought near by the blood of Christ 14 For Christ
is our peace, who made both groups one and tore down the dividing wall of hostility, in his flesh”

whose hostility?
our hostility or God’s hostility?
by the new birth ending our hostility or
IN HIS FLESH, Christ’s blood ending God’s hostility?
(when the death is imputed, when the reconciliation is imputed)

by regeneration in our hearts
or by the cross?

did Christ put the hostility to death by regeneration?
or did Christ put the hostility to death by His death?
whose hostility?

Ephesians 2: 16 Christ did this in order to reconcile both to God in one body through the cross and put the hostility to death by it.

2. Who is being told to “be ye reconciled”. If a sermon is all gospel and no law, then whatever the preacher says is going to be thought of as gospel, even when he’s talking about law. Some preachers teach only law and think that’s gospel. The answer to these legaliss is not to teach comfort for everybody, and no law or wrath for anybody. The solution is to talk about both law an gospel, so thaat people know the difference. The Solution is NOT to be told “to believe that you are reconciled (or have always been reconciled).

The plea (2 Corinthians, persuade) is to obey the gospel, the command to believe the gospel. Be ye Reconciled. The gospel does not tell anybody that they have believed the gospel.

John Owen—Sharing the gospel is not a matter of telling people that God has set his love on each of them and Christ has died to save each of them, for these assertions, biblically understood, would imply that they will all infallibly be saved, and this cannot be known to be true. The knowledge of being the object of God’s love and Christ’s redeeming death belongs to the individual’s assurance, which in the nature of the case cannot come before believing the gospel. The knowledge of being the object of God’s love is to be inferred from the fact that one has believed, not proposed as a reason why one should believe.

Election is before faith
Justification is not before faith
Faith in the gospel is a result of God’s imputation of Christ’s death
Imputation of Christ’s death is before faith, but receiving the reconciliation is not apart from faith or before faith
2 Peter 1: 1 To those who have obtained a faith of equal privilege with ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

What does “eternity” mean?—-does it mean “timeless”?

Does “from eternity” means “justified by God as much from the future as from the past”?

Does “from eternity” mean not only “always was reconciledd” but also always being reconciled, never done being reconciled?

Are the elect no more justified after justification than they were before justification?

Since we agree that “justification” is not about “making us change on the inside” , why would we need to think that God’s legal transfers and legal declarations are only real in “God’s mind”?

If only what’s in God’s mind is real, and if everything else is mere “as if” legal symbolism, why did God condemn sin by the flesh of Christ in death?

Reconciliation before God is not a change IN the sinner
Reconciliation before God is a legal change FOR a sinner.
But is it possible for the Holy God to justify an ungodly elect sinner? Yes
Is the only way the Unchanging God can justify an ungodly sinner to have always justified that sinner? No
Is the only way the Unchanging God can mpute Christ’s death to an ungodly sinner is to have always imputed Chrst’s death to that sinner? No

Is the only way the Unchanging God could have Christ be imputed with the guilt of the elect ia to have always had and still have Christ be imputed with the guilt of the elect? No
Not according to Scripture. Romans 6: 9-10 Christ, having been raised from the dead, will not die again. Death no longer rules over Christ 10 For in light of the fact that Christ died, Christ died to sin once for all time. . In fact Christ now lives

Hebrews 9: 28 Christ having been offered ONCE IN TIME to bear the sins of many, will appear a SECOND TIME, NOT TO BEAR SIN, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.

Teaching two justifications
results in two confusions–
1. a confusion of justification with election, as if being in Christ
by election meant being already in Christ in every other way
2. a confusion of justification with regeneration, as if God never had any enmity with elect sinners and it was only elect snners who had enmity with God

Before we were regenerate, sure we were enemies of God in our own minds, But here’s the question I keep asking –what about God? was God ever our enemy?

Were the elect always justified in Christ?
Were the elect always “new creation” in Christ?

This is not about what we see or feel
This is about what was or was not legally objectively true

Was recononciliation always accomplished?
Was it necessary for reconciliation to be obtained by Christ’s death?

Had all the elect always received by imputation the reconciliation?

Romans 5: 8 When we were still sinners, Christ died for us! 9 Much more then, since we HAVE NOW BEEN declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath. 10 For if, WHEN we were enemies, we WERE reconciled to God through the death of His Son.
Does this mean that only we were enemies and that God was never our enemy? No.

Romans 5:10 then how much more, HAVING BEEN reconciled, we WILL BE SAVED by His resurrection 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in
God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have NOW RECEIVED THE RECONCILIATION through Him.
Is this talking about our not being enemies of God? No.
Is this talking about the reconciliation in history by which God was
satisfied/ propitated for the guilt of the elect? yes

Must the “receiving the reconciliation ” be at the same time in history as the reconciliation was obtained by Jesus Christ? no
The reconciliation is received first by God’s imputation and then by faith

Romans 6: 9 Christ, having been raised from the dead, will not die again. Death no longer rules over Christ 10 For in light of the fact that Christ died, Christ died to sin once for all time. .

Romans 8:3 God condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son IN FLESH like ours under sin’s guilt, and for sin

https://jamesward.bandcamp.com/track/isaiah-53-he-shall-be-satisfied

What do you mean by “Actually Saved”?

Posted July 6, 2019 by markmcculley
Categories: atonement, election

Tags: , , ,

Hebrews 9:28 Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are WAITING

Arminians say that Jesus died for everybody but now humans need to do some things in order to be saved in the end.

Double talking Calvinists say that Jesus died for everybody but that now God needs to do something more. They teach that God the Holy Spirit does more for some of those for whom Christ died. But notice that they are
not on the surface talking about what humans must do more.

Examined closely, what these double talking Calvinists are saying is that Chrsit died also for the non-elect, but that God the Holy Spirit only gives faith to the elect.

Examined even more closely, it might very well turn out that what these double talking Calvinists are teaching is that humans need to do something. But that’s not what they are saying. They are saying that “faith is a gift of God”. They are saying that God gives faith in the gospel to all the elect.

So how do we react to these double talkers? Do we need deny that anything more needs to be done by God? Do we over-react by denying that there is anymore “waiting”? NO. God DOES still ALSO effectually call the elect. God does still ALSO give knoweledge of the gospel to the elect and cause the elect to believe the gospel. God still does ALSO raise the elect from the dead and give them immortality.

The problem is NOT that the double talkers say that God does more than accomplish Christ’s death. God does do “something else” For example, God ALSO imputes the death to the elect. The problem is NOT that the double talkers teach that “salvation” is not only atonement and justification. The problem is that they are saying that God loves everybody, but that God does not love everybody equally, and therefore they say that God the Holy Spirit only effectually calls some for whom Christ died.

This makes it look like the Father Son and the Hoily Sporit do not have the same purpose. This makes it sound like what Christ’s death is only POTENTIAL, but that what the Holy Spirit does is the “actual” atonement.

Romans 8:32 God did not even spare His own Son but offered Him up for us how will God not ALSO with the Son give us EVERYTHING

If Jesus died for a person, then the Holy Spirit will give that person the new birth. The Holy Spirit does not give the new birth only to some for whom Jesus died. If Jesus died for a person, then God will impute the death of Jesus for a person to that person.

The preachers who don’t want the truth to get in the way of them comforting people and keeping their jobs will say to everybody that “Christ died for you and you means me”. And then aat other times and place these preachers talk about God “loving all people but loving them inequally” . They never get around to what “died for you” actually means. Does it mean “died to make you an offer? Do they mean “died for you, therefore you (means me) must be justified in the end”?

If God imputed the sins of a person to Jesus, then Jesus died for that person. Every person for whom Jesus died will be imputed with the death of Jesus. One way the double-talkers respond to Romans 8:32 is to say that “GOD GIVES US HIM”. As if to say, God gives us THE PERSON, so any discussion about death and imputation and new birth is not necessary. But Romans 8:32 teaches “give with Him also everything”

It’s the double talkers who are saying that “Jesus died for everybody but in the end God only gives Jesus to some of them”. We need to ask, what is the nature of the death of Jesus? When they say that Jesus died for a person, what did that death do? Is the death “one step but then there are many other steps” so therefore Jesus died for many who won’t get the other steps?

No, those who believe the truw gospel know better than that. We know that Christ’s death “did something”. Some Calvinists then say “Christ’s death actually saved a sinner”

As much as you might think that gets to the point, I don’t agree. What do you mean by “actually”? Do you mean that when Christ died, all the elect, including those not even born yet, were there and then really born again and there and then really resurrected to immortality?

I don’t think you do mean that. What do you mean? Even if you incorrectly teach by “actually” that all for whom Christ died were already justified before Christ’s death and before they heard the gospel, you still don’t mean by “actually saved” that all these sinners were already born again.

So what do you mean? Do you mean that the new brith is not a necessary part of “salvation”, because the new birth is what God does in us (instead of the justification done outside us)? I don’t think you think the work of the Holy Spirit in us is not needed.

So what do you mean by “Christ’s death actually saved them”? I think you mean what Romans 8:32 is teaching, that if Chrsit died for a sinner, then that sinners is predestined to be given all the other benefits of salvation. I think you mean that GOD’S JUSTICE DEMANDS that a sinner whose sins were imputed to Chrsit and for whom Christ died BE GIVEN ALL THE OTEHR BLESSINGS OF SALVATION. So why don’t you say that?

Instead of saying “actually saved”, say that both God’s sovereignty and God’s jsutice means that Christ died only for the elect and that every one of the elect will be given all that Jesus purchased by His death. Ephesians 4:8 quotes Psalm 68: “when he ascended on high, he gave gifts to us”

The gifts Jesus gives are gifts bought by Jesus in His death. As we buy gifts on one day, but then give the gifts on other later days, so also Jesus is still giving the different blessings secured by His death.

Isaiah 53: 10 You make The Servant a restitution offering, The Lord will see His seed…The Lord’s pleasure will be accomplished.
11 He will see out of His death and He will be satisfied
My righteous Servant WILL justify the many whose iniquities He carried
12 Therefore because of His death, I will give Him the many as His righteous reward.
Because the Servant submitted Himself to death,
Because the Servant bore the sins of many
Because the Servant was counted condemned and guilt

Of course the doubletalkers will not go away because you explain it more carefully. Many of them like to say that God lvoes everybody and that Christ died for everybody BUT THAT CHIRST DIED EXTRA FOR THE ELECT TO PURCHASE FOR THEM THE OTHER GIFTS. When they say stuff like that, here’s the question to ask–what do they say that Christ did by death for everybody? Did Christ make propitiation for everybody?

PROPITIATION is specific.

“Make atonement” might mean lots of things. But if Christ’s death accompliished PROPITIATION, then that means something differnt than only “the good death”.

PROPITIATION means “takes away God’s wrath toward sinnners”,

This is why we need to eliminate the lie of “died for everybody”. It makes no just or legal sense to say that the death took away wrath, but then later say that some for whom Christ died will always be under the wrath of God. Christ’s death is an expiation of sins. Christ’s death is a propitiation of God for elect sinners. Sins were not always expiated. God was not always propitiated. God demanded propitation. God made the propitiation by Christ’s death. God accepted God’s sin offering for elect sinners.

We need to say “legally satisfied God’s wrath” instead of “actually saved”. What do we mean by “saved”? What do we mean by “actually”?

Hebrews 9:28 Christ,having been offered ONE TIME TO BEEAR THE SINS of many, will appear a second time, NOT THIS TIME TO BEAR SIN but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.

Hebrews 9:28 gets right to the point of what Christ’s death REALLY DID. At that time, Christ was actually imputed with guilt, and this is why Christ was “offered in death”. But after that death, Christ is no longer imputed with guilt. This is part of “salvation”. This is “reconciliation”. This is “redemption” Christ bought these blessings and Christ will give the elect these blessings.

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us

Romans 6:9–“We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again Death no longer has dominion over him. 10 Because the death Christ died Christ died to sin, once for all time

Hebrews 9:12, “Christ entered once for all time into the holy place, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus SECURING a permanent redemption

Luke 1:68 Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:the Lord, the God of Israel has visited and accomplished redemption for His people.

When you say “actually saved’, do you mean “everything Jesus is going to ever do was all finished? Do you mean that the intercession of Jesus was finished? No, I don’t think you mean thoise things. Do you mean that the resurrection of Jesus had already happened when Jesus died? Again, I don’t think so. Rather, you think the propitation was finished. The sacrifice to take away God’s wrath actually happened in history Jesus was not going to keep dying. Jesus was not going to die again. Christ’s sacrifice was FINISHED when He died, Christ’s sacrifice was DONE before He rose again.

But all the blessings of salvation have NOT YET been given to the elect. Donald Macleod, Christ Crucified, IVP, 2014—Human nature after the cross remains as it was before the cross. If Christ healed our humanity by taking our humanity, then Christ was crucified by the very nature he had healed…. According to some , Christ condemned sin by saying no to the flesh and living a life of perfect faith and obedience. But this would mean that the condemnation of sin did not take place on the cross by Christ’s death, but in the daily life of Christ.

Macleod–“But Romans 8:3 says that it not Jesus but God the Father who condemns sin in the flesh. While it was indeed in the flesh of his Son that God condemned
sin but it was not only in his Son as incarnate, but in his Son as a sin-offering.. God condemned sin by passing judgement on his Son.

Another group of “sovereign grace preachers” does teach that Christ died onl;y for the elect, but they have a difficult time agreeing to “actual propitation” because they deny that the elect were ever actually under the wrath of God. Some of them even deny that Christ Himself was “actually” under God’s legal wrath. One of these “sovereign grace” preachers argues that the
‘children of wrath” in Ephesians 2:3 did not mean that God ever actcually had any wrath or needed any propitation.

The preacher wrote– “God’s children re wrathful in their nature. Wrath in many places in referring to man’s sin. “Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.”[Psalm 76:10] .  This sovereign grace preacher went on to argue that “children of wrath” was only a reference to the nature of the God’s elect before their regeneration and was not the wrath of God toward the elect before their regeneration.  This preacher teaches that the only wrath is in our minds, and never was in God’s mind.   This preacher denies that Ephesians 2 can have anything to do with the wrath of God toward the elect before justification.

This preacher denies that the elect were ever not justified before God. This preacher refuses any idea that God could love a sinner before that sinner is justified.  Therefore this preachers teaches that all the elect were always justified before God .

Notice that even this preacher agrees that regeneration is another blessing of salvation. This preacher would not say that the elect were always actually regenerate. And yet he would say that all the elect were “actually saved” by Christ’s death (even before Christ actually died). To quote the preacher– “Children of wrath is all about sin, not about God”

This preacher is using the word “saved” in more than one way. On the one hand, the preacher is saying that none of the elect was ever condemned. The preacher is saying that not only some but all of the elect were “actually saved” before Christ died. But the same preacher doesn’t mean by this that they “actually had spiritual life”.The preacher is meaning that they were “actually already justified”.

The preacher is not being clear. Maybe the preacher is not clear in their own mind. But also maybe the preacher simply doesn’t care and thinks of himself as not needing to explain anything to anybody.

We need to stop saying “actually saved”. There are other blessngs to come and we are waiting for some of them We need to say Christ’s death actually propiaated God. Propiation did not make God love the elect.
God’s love for the elect caused God to give Christ to die in order to satisfy God’s demand for propitation. Propitiation is the ighteousness that satisfies God’s demand for righteousness. Sin offends the holy God. Sin is about God. God is the one who is reconciled by God. God is the one who is reconciled by Christ’s death.
Christ is God. Christ is the mediator between God and sinners

I Timothy 2:54 For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus,

God is reconciled to elect sinners, God needed to be reconciled to elect sinners. Christ’s death did that.

Romans 5: 11 We have now received this reconciliation through Christ Jesus.

The reconciliation we have received is not our receiving. The reconcilaition we received is not God overcoming our wrath. The reoncilaition we receive is God overcoming God’s wrath by Christ death. God overcoming God’s wrath is an objective external thing out there, done by Christ’s death.

That overcoming of God’s wrath by God was done for the elect. God imputes that overcoming of God’s wrath by God to the elect. The elect receive that reconciliation by God’s imputation and only then by faith.

“Actually saved” does not say that everything to be done by God was already done by Christ’s death (or even before Christt died)

The truth hidden and obscured in “actually saved” is about propitation. Propitiation was not always done. But then propitiation was completed. All the elect, even those now still under God’s wrath, will one day receive the propitation actually brought in and finished by Christ’s death.

It’s true that the elect are waiting for God to “do something else”. God will do other things beside Christ’s death. God will do more things. But nothing else needs to be done to expiate sins and to proptiate God for sinners. God did not do that for all sinners. But God did already make propitation to God for all elect sinners. God will do “all the other things” for these elect sinnes. Christ purchased not only propitation (paid the redemption price) but Christ purchased all the other blessings.

If you say, well that makes no sense, since God is sovereign, why does God need to purchase other things God will do for us or give us? Indeed, since God is sovereign, why would God have needed even to legally overcome God’s wrath by death? Why would God need to make expiation and pay for sins by death, when God “could have” only sovereregnly forgiven? If your gospel is only Goid’s sovereignty and not Christ’s death, then there is no righteousness revealed in your gospel.

Justice demands that one part of salvation is Christ’s death. But that does not mean that every part of salvation is Christ’s death. Christ’s death means that it would be unjust for God to NOT give ALL the other different blessingss of salvation to the elect.

“Actually saved” might make a neat “soundbite”. But it doesn’t tell the true story of the good news. It doesn’t tell the story of other actions by God in the past and future. I do not reference only “the other things God the Holy Spirit is going to do”. I refer also to the rest of what God the Father and God the Soin will do. But Propitation Done in time has priority and gives glory to Christ, and what Christ the Mediator has done.

Everything done in creation has been done for the glory of Christ. Jesus Christ made propitiation for the elect in Christ not only as the one whoe executes and fulfills God’s Purpose. God’s purpose was that the election of Christ means that all who are elect are elected for Christ and by Christ.

Romans 8 29 For those God foreknew God ALSO o predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that Christ would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those God predestined, God also called; and those God called, God also justified; and those God justified, God also glorified.

I Peter 1:20 Christ was chosen before the foundation of the world but was revealed at the end of the ages for you who THROUGH HIM ARE BELIEVERS in God, who raised CHRIST from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

God loves only the elect. God gives everything to all the elect. Why is this important? The SCANDAL of that to most people is that God loves only some sinners. But I argue that it is even more offensive to say that God loves people but then also to add that God does NOT give them everyhthing. The scandal to justice is if God loves some people and yet those people end up condemned.

But maybe you think it’s more offensive to say that people end up condemned and that God never loved them. Some sinners end up condemned by God but Jesus never died for them. Why is one scandal more offensive than the other? Is it your theodicy that “well, better some saved, because all COULD HAVE BEEN CONDEMNED?

When the double talking Calvinists say that Christ died for everybody but then God does more for some of them, at least some are being saved? Would I rather have nobody saved at all, than to agree with those who say that some for whom Christ died will not be saved?

I am not going to boast here about wanting the truth whatever it is. Maybe thos who disagree with me want the truth also. But the truth is that all for whom Christ died will be given all other blessings. The truth is that Christ’s death was not needed if only some for whom Christ died receive the blessings of salvation. If it’s God the Holy Spirit who actually elects and saves, then what reason can actually be given for Christ to have died?

Galatians 2:21 if righteousness comes through some other way, then Christ died for nothing.

Galatians 6: 14 I will never glory in anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ…16 May peace come to all those who follow this standard

1 John 4:10 Love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Not that God caused us to receive Christ. (Though that’s another thing God did)
Not that God caused us to overcome our hostility to Christ. (Another thing done by God.)
The Evidence and Result of God’s Love was Christ Becoming the Propitiation.

Romans 3:25 God offered Christ as a propitiation through faith in His blood, in order that God would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus

Christ did not purchase God the Holy Spirit as a kind of gift card by which God the Holy Spirit now decides “who will be elect”. All for whom Christ died will most certainly repent of their false gospels and believe the true gospel.

Even though God has already imputed all the future sins of the elect to Christ, God did not impute the sin of final unbelief of the gospel by any elect sinner. The reason for this is that no elect sinner will die in final unbelief. Not believing the gospel is not evidence of our ALWAYS BEING CONDEMNED. Elect sinners who do not now believe the gospel WILL come to believe the gospel. Elect sinners who are now condemned in their sins WILL BE JUSTIFIED BY GOD. All the elect are always elect, but the elect are not all justified yet.

I don’t agree with the rhetoric of preachers who teach that, as soon as Christ satisfied justice for sins, those sins can no longer be counted against any of the elect, even if those elect persons have not yet been caused to believe the gospel. These preachers ask this question —if we all agree that you don’t find out if you are elect until after you believe the gospel, why can’t we then also agree that we find out after we believe that we were already justified?

We are NOT actualy justified before God until we believe the gospel. The Bible does not teach two different justifications, one that God actually does out of time, and then another justification (which is not objective or actual but only in our heads and which tells us that we were already justified!) God imputes Christ’s death to elect sinners and one of the blessings Christ purchased is the elect believing God’s gospel and being declared justified before God by God.

God the Son gives us the Holy Spirit. Christ’s death is given to us not by the Holy Spirit but by God’s legal imputation.

Galatians 4:6– because you are adopted, God has sent the Spirit into your hearts.”

I know the Westminster Confession teaches “applied by the Spirit” language but we need to account for the “saving” done by God the Son and for the “saving” done by God the Holy Spirit. Legal Redemption is the basis for the promise of the Spirit. Every reference to “baptism with the Spirit” (including I Cor 12:13) has Christ as the one who gives the holy Spirit, not theHoly Spirit as the one who gives us Christ. Effectual calling by God the Father does not assume that it’s God the Holy Spirit who “actually” includes us into Christ.

Galatians 3: 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, in order that…. we receive the promised Spirit through faith.”

Ephesians 4:8 “when he ascended on high, he gave gifts to us”

Actual propitiation for any individual results in Christ actually giving each and every sinner for whom Christ died all the blessings of salvation

Nobody is Justified (or Even Regenerated) Without the Gospel

Posted June 9, 2019 by markmcculley
Categories: atonement, election

Tags: ,

Romans 4:5 believe on Him who DECLARES the UNGODLY to be RIGHTEOUS,

Romans 4:20 Abraham did not waver in unbelief at God’s promise. Abraham was strengthened in his faith. Abraham gave glory to God, 21 because Abraham was fully convinced that what God had promised God was also able to perform. 22 Therefore, Christ’s death was credited by God to Abraham for righteousnes.

As soon as the rghteousness to be obtained by Christ was imputed to Abraham, Abraham believed the gospel.

Righteosness is not faith.
Righteousness is through faith.
While Abraham did not believe the gospel, Abraham was not declared righteous by God.

Even though Christ did not obtain righteouensss until Christ died, Abraham was justified by God based on Christ’s righteousness.

Romans 4: 13 For the promise to Abraham (or to his descendants that he would inherit the world) was not through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

We must not say that Abraham was always righeous before God. Abraham was not always imputed with Christ’s death. Abraham was born ungodly, and this ungodliness is not only a referenceto his lack of regenerertion. Abraham was born condemned before God

Romans 4:10 In what way then was righteousenss credited—while Abraham was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while Abraham was circumcised, but uncircumcised..

Romans 4 does not teach that faith is a human condition in order for God to impute Christ’s death. Faith does not obtain the righteousness.
As soon as the rghteousness to be obtained by Christ was imputed to Abraham, Abraham believed the gospel and was justified (not only in conscience but before God).

1. When Christ’s righteousness is imputed by Gid, at least three things happen.—-regeneration, faith in the gospel, and justification before God. 2. This does not mean that regeneration is the righteousness—regeneration is a result of God’s imputation of the righteousness. 3. This does not mean that faith is the righteousness—faith in the gospel is a result and evidence of God’s imputation of Christ’s death 4. Justification results when God imputes Christ’s righteousness —but this does not mean that justification is the righteouensss—Justification is result of God’s imputation of that righteousness to the individual elect sinner. 5. So the three results are not “conditions in order for God to impute”. But we must not over-react by saying that we are justified before or without faith in the gospel. . Also, we must not over-react by
saying that we were already regenerate without the true gospel or the resulting faith in the true gospel.

Righteousness is through faith. While Abraham did not believe the gospel, Abraham was not declared righteous.

1.Christ is always the same person. But Christ was not always dead. Christ obtained a Rightousness by His death. Christ’s Death is Christ’s work.

2. Not Christ the person but Christ’s death is the righteousness imputed by God to justify an ungodly sinner.

3. God counts according to truth. God counts Christ’s death as righteousness because that divine-humaan righteousness (accomplished in Christ) was and is righteousness.

4. The righteousness counted as righteousness is not our righteousness (not our faith or works of faith).

5. The value of Christ’s death is legally “transferred” to the elect when they are “married to Christ”, so that what belongs to Christ is still HIS but now belongs also to HIS JUSTIFIED ELECT.

6. Justification is not the righteousness obtained by Christ,because justification is the declaration that God makes when God imputes Christ’s righteousness to the elect.
.
7, God is righteous and declared to be righteous, without anything being transferred from us to God. God is counted as just because God is just.

8. The elect can only be declared righteous, legally and logically, after God transfers Christ’s righteousness to them.

9 God is justified in justifying the ungodly elect ,not only because Christ obtained a righteousness for the elect, but also because God transfers this righteouness to them.

10 In the case of the elect sinner, imputation has two parts–both transfer and declaration. In the case of God, imputaton is declaration alone.

11. “Justify” does not mean improve . “Justify” means to declare the truth about somebody being not guilty

12. By God’s delcaration, an ungodly elect sinner becomes legally righteous on the basis of the righteousness of another

13. A sinner who has become justified by God before God is now promised the lasting life of the age to come

14. “Justified before faith in the gospel” is a reaction to Arminian false gospel . BUT “justified before faith in the gospel” is NOT the gospel

15 Using the word “faith” in a definition of the gospel is NOT wrong. The gospel commands sinners to exclude faith in the gospel as being any part of the righteouness reealed in the gospel.

16 The same gospel which commands sinners to believe the gospel informs sinners that faith is not the righteusness accomplished by Christ in His death.

17. “Righteousness through fath” does NOT mean that rightousness is faith.

18. The righteousness revealed in the gospel is “God condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son in flesh like ours under sin’s domain, and as a sin offering, (Romans 8:3)

Romans 5: 18 through one righteous act there is LIFE -giving justification…19 As through one man’s disobedience the many were constituted sinners, so also through the one man’s obedience the many will be constituted righteous..As sin reigned in DEATH, so also grace will reign through righteousness, resulting in LASTING LIFE

2 Corinthians 5: 18 Everything is from God, who reconciled us to God through Christ … In Christ, God was reconciling sinners to God ….God made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, in order that we become the righteousness of God in Christ

Righteousness is an objective something, external to Abraham.
Abraham became righteous, by having God impute righteousness to Abraham.
Abraham became justified, when Abraham was still uncirumcised.
Abraham became justified, by having God impute objective external righteousness to Abraham.
When sinners are imputed with Christ’s death, they are born again and they believe the gospel.

Christ died for some sinners, but not necessarily for you . Christ’s Death Matters so Much that Christ’s death Makes the Difference . Your works don’t prove that you have faith, and your faith in the false Christ does not prove that the true Christ’s death was for you. Election matters before Christ’s death matters—If you are not God’s elect in Christ, then Chist did not die for you

Is Ignorance and Unbelief of the True Gospel EVIDENCE OF CONDEMNATION ?

Posted May 23, 2019 by markmcculley
Categories: atonement, imputation

Tags: , , ,

Don Fortner—“People like to ask this silly useless question: does a person have to BELIEVE IN the sovereignty of God to be saved. If God isn’t sovereign, nobody is going to be saved. So what difference does the question make? People ask this question: can a person with Arminian faith already be in a state of justification? Faith doesn’t save. Neither Arminian or Calvinist faith saves. So what difference does the question make?”

Do not be fooled by these two “tolerant to the inconsistent” soundbites. Notice that clergyman Fortner has not answered either question. Though we agree that only the sovereign God can save, do we believe that God is “so sovereign” that God can and does justify a person without at the same time causing that person to believe in God’s righteousness and sovereignty?

Preachers who don’t take questions coverup the implications of their bad logic. We agree that faith is not the righteouseness that Christ obtained by His death. But if the Bible teaches that God’s imputation of that righteousness results in spiritual life and faith in the promise of the gospel, then it seems proper to see ignorance and unbelief of the gospsle as evidence of still being in a condemened legal state before God. When God justifies an ungodly sinner, does God make what that sinner believes to be different than it was before?

1 Corinthians 2:12 -“Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, in order that we understand the things freely given us by God.

Romans 6:17–“But thanks be to God, that you were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were haadded over.

2 Peter 1:1 To those who have obtained a faith of equal privilege with ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

Romans 8:10–”the Spirit is life BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

How can preachers say that assurance comes directly from the Holy Spirit by the power of the gospel (including the promise/proposition that only–as many as- believers in Christ will be justified), but then turn around and say that unbelief and ignorance of the gospel is not evidence of condemnation? First, they deny that the elect are ever condemned before God. They teach that all those who ever will be justified before God have always been justiiied before God. Second, they have reduced the “you need to be saved” to regeneration and the Holy Spirir giving life.

In response to this issue, for many years, I have consistently refused to say that the nature of justification is not a gospel issue.

Exoneration is not justification. Exoneration means either that they couldn’t prove anything on you or it means that you never had any guilt of condemnation in the first place.

Colossians 2:15 God erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the cross. 15 God disarmed the powers and disgraced the powers publicly; God triumphed over the powers by Christ

There are preachers who can find a “four-fold meaning” to words like “justification” and “redemption” and “reconciliation”. These prechers impose their “four realms system” onto Scriptures despite context and without asking any questions about what anybody else ever thought or wrote about a Bible text. But Colossians 2:15 is not about “only in our conscience” or us against God. The problem was guilt imputed by God and condemnation against us by God. Christ became legally alive to sin and then by His death on the cross Christ became dead to sin. Christ became the righteousness, and this righteousess is imputed by God to the elect in order for them to pass from condemnation to justification.

Romans 6:9–“We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all time . Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive to God through Jesus Christ.

Bill Parker taught condemnation before justifiction in the August 2001 Reign of Grace Newsletter,-“The guilt of sin is that which keep sinners under condemnation and wrath. Believers are not dead to the presence, power and influence of sin their character and conduct, but the moment God brought them out of condemnation and into the blessed state of justification, based on the righteousness of Christ, they BECAME totally and legally dead to the guilt of sin….”

This was the consistent teaching from Reign of Grace taped sermons during that time. This was the means by which God taught me to understand and believe the gospel. I was not justified before God before I believed that gospel. As far as I can tell, these tape series are no longer available from Reign of Grace.

In a book published in 2019,the Righteousness of God, p 145, Bill Parker teaches a different doctrine (the one taught by John Gill and some others, but denied by Abraham Booth and John Owen)—“The only way the elect have ever been under God’s wrath is as they stood legally in Christ…This means that God’s elect have never personally been under God’s wrath.”

Henry Mahan—“When did this righteousness Christ brought in come to you? You don’t have this righteousness imputed to you before you believe the God of the gospel.”

Romans 4: 4 Righteousness WILL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 The Lord was handed over up because of our sins and raised because of our justification.

There is a difference between the righteousness of Christ’s death and God’s imputation of Christ’s death and the justification which follows God’s imputation of Christ’s death to the elect.

Let me note by way of parenthesis that Bill Parker and I seem to be in agreement that Christ’s death is Christ’s rightousness. We seem to agree in not making Christ’s law-keeping (necessary and vicarous though it is) to be Christ’s righteousness. Even though Bill does not address the idea of law-keeping being imputed in his new book, he avoids repeating the tradition that Christ’s death “would only take us back to neutral”. But even in talking about Christ’s death, Bill Parker also seems to deny that “accomplished” means that Christ was legally under guilt and wrath before God. 226 “Some argue that righteoueness did not exist until Christ actually came in time and died on the cross. But it did exist in the mind of God, who see things as they exist in eternity.

Does Go not know the difference between what God has purposed and what God has brought in (obtained) by Christ’s death as fulifllment of that purpose?

Robert Haldane, p 194–“there are some who, strongly impressed with the great evil of making faith a work, have plunged into a contrary extreme, as if justification were independent of faith, or as if faith were merely an accidental or unimportant thing in justification. This also is a great error. Faith is as necessary in justification as the sacrifice of Christ itself, but necessary for a different purpose.”

Romans 3:22 –“the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe”.

Romans 4:13–“the promise did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith….

Phil 3:9–“and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that righteousness which comes through faith in Christ.”

Ephesians 2:13 –Now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.

God’s elect were once far away, not only in our own conscience and mind, but also before God’s justice.

It is a very bad over-reaction against those (like Don Fortner) who say that Christ was made corrupt to deny redemptive history and to falsely claim that Christ was never MADE anything.

It would be wrong to deny that God the Son BECAME incarnate, both God and Human. It would also be wrong to deny that God the Son was first imputed with the guilt of the elect, and then that LATER IN HISTORY God the Son was raised from His death (His death because of that imputed guilt). Because all the elect will be justified, Christ was raised from the dead. Because Christ’s death paid for all those sins, those sins are no longer imputed to Christ, and so it was that Christ was raised from the dead. This is history. This is news.

2 Corinthians 21 He MADE the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, in order that we BECOME the righteousness of God in Him.

I Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be MADE alive. I Corinthians 15 is not describing all sinners. I am not denying that all humans were imputed with Adam’s guilt. But I Corinthinas 15 is about “all” who were elect in Christ—they will all be justified before God.

I have consistently refused to say that the timing of justification has no logical implications for the definition and nature of justification. I refuse to decide beforehand that “this is not a gospel issue”. I also have a long time policy of not saying up front that people who don’t believe something are Christians. Instead of retreating to the non-biblical phrase “gospel issue”, I want to keep talking about what the gospel is. I don’t want to shut down the conversaton, to say no more questions unless you first agree that those on both sides of this issue are Christians.

We can’t say, well we really are saying the same thing. No, we are not. If we are saying the same thing, is what you are saying now the same as what you were always saying? And if what you are saying differently now is not important, then why not keep saying it the same way you used to say it?

Bill Parker used to teach the same thing I have been teaching (18 years) about the elect being condemned before justification. What I am teaching I learned from Bill Parker (and David Adkins, and then reading Abraham Booth, who read John Owen). I love Bill Parker. Nobody, not Bill, not anybody has any obligation to discuss anything with me, But I don’t think it does anybody any good to say that “we are all” teaching the same thing. We are not.

I have always been wary about who are the “we” and “you”. It’s easy to say, “well THEY left us so THEY never belonged to US.” But that tends to be what people say about each other. For example, “were YOU there when THEY crucified MY Lord” Is the “you” us? Who are “them”? Is “my” Lord the Lord of everybody or is “my” Lord only the Lord who stays with us when we change doctrines?

Enough already with these anonymous “conversations”. “They said that and then I said that”. Guess who always wins the “conversation”! We do.

I know about this. Why even begin a “discussion” with me? I am just waiting for you to finish commenting so that I can say what I was already thinking before you started.

None of us feels properly “listened to” (or read). If you are going to say—that was good, you need to let me know you know what I said. Otherwise, it’s either “gospel” so no questions or “not a gospel issue” so no questions…

Is it a situation of where “we can’t afford to lose any more friends” so we can’t talk about it? Or is it a case of “since we can’t talk about it”, what we have is not real fellowship but merely “conferencing” together while ssying words that can be taken different ways by different people?

Are we supposed to say, Randy Wages is teaching the nature of justification different now, so now let’s all teach it the way he’s teaching it? I asked Randy once, were you regenerate and had spiritaal life before you began teaching that the elect were always justified before God. Randy Wages assured me that he was already effectually called before he had ever heard the doctrine of “never personally condemned before God.” But then Randy warned me that this was the best way to show that faith in the gospel is not the righteousness. Randy also told me that he had found out that some people he thought were regenerate exposed themselves as not yet knowing the gospel when he brought up to them the idea of “eternal justification before God”.

The implication to me was that, if I had not heard or known about “eternal justification”, then posssibly I was already regenerate, but if I questioned the “never under the wrath even in unbelief” doctrine when informed about it, this would raise questions in Randy’s mind about if I knew that faith was not the righteousness. Not saying it the same way Randy was now sayung it would cause Randy to doubt if I knew the gospel.

“Only believers in Christ are justified” is part and parcel of the gospel. If you exclude this promise from the gospel, then you have a bad soundbite which opens the door to those who believe that faith is evidence of justification before God but who do not believe that ignorance and unbelief of the gospel is evidence of condemnation before God.

Taking the promise to faith out of the gospel also opens the door to the equation of election and justification. This equation eliminates the importance of redemptive history. A redemption which God imputes to sinners before history begins opens to the door to a redemption which already existed before being accomplished by the Christ revealed in the Bible.

There is a distinction to be made between Christ’s death as satisfaction for sins imputed and God’s imputation of that “reconciliation” to the elect (receiving the righteousness by God’s imputation, Romans 5:11 and 17) in order to their justification. In order for there to be justification of the ungodly, there had to be condemnation (before God guilty and ungodly)

“Never condemned and never under the wrath” is a MYTH. This is NOT what the Bible teaches, but something invented by preachers who often attempt to imply that everybody who disagrees with them are Arminian. You can’t be incorrect about guilt and condemnation and be correct about the nature of justification.

Does “never personally under the wrath of God” mean “never under the wrath of God? In what sense was an elect person ever guilty and condemned before God? Does the word “personally” suggest that in some way or other the elect were ignorant and unbelieving of the gospel because they did not yet have Christ’s righteousness imputation to them?

Does “made” (or “become”) always mean something more or different than imputation? If Christ in history was “never under the wrath of God” and if the elect in history were “never under the wrath of God” , who was ever saved in history from being under the wrath of God?

If there is no before and after to God’s justification of the ungodly, then there is no before and after to good works

Romans 6:20 ”For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those thing is death”

Luke 16:15 That which is highly esteemed among humans is abomination in the sight of God.

Proverbs 15:8 “The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD”

Romans 7:4 you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we now bear FRUIT FOR GOD.

2 Peter 1: 1 To those who have obtained a faith of equal privilege with ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

The answer to those who falsely teach that our faith in Christ is the righteouensss is NOT TO DENY THAT ALL WHO ARE JUSTIFIED HAVE FAITH IN THE TRUE CHIRST. The answer to those who falsely teach that our faith in Christ is the righteouensss is NOT TO DENY THAT RIGHTEOUSNESS IS IMPUTED by GOD IN TIME AND RESULTS IN FAITH IN THE PROMISE OF THE GOSPEL.

The answer to Andrew Fuller reducing the atonement to the work of the Holy Spirit is not to remove Christ’s atonement from history. The answer to Andrew Fuller reducing the atonement to the work of the Holy Spirit is not to deny that justification happens in history. Those who are reaching “always justified” are teaching that “salvation” is regeneration not justification—their “you need to be saved” is only about the new birth. Their “new creation” is no longer about justification but about regeneration.

p 194, What is the righteousness, Bill Parker–” it has been saaid that 2 Cor 5:14 is about new creation and that new creation is about reconciliation not about regeneration. This is true”. But in the next sentence Bill introduces the word “mainly”. (Which of the “four realms” is reconciliation?) –“It is not MAINLY about regeneration and conversion”. Then one more sentence–“HOWEVER, Paul was led of the Spirit to INCLUDE the reality of regeneration and conversion.”

Then one more sentence. Bil writes about the fruit of regeneration—“all for whom Christ died shall live for His glory.” Though Bill began on page 194 by saying that new creation was “about reconciliation not regeneration”, the next eight pages are all about regeneration and not about reconciliation ( not atonement, not justification).

IF YOU PUT RECONCILIATION BEFORE HISTORY HAPPENS, then when you begin to talk about the gospel and being “saved”, you are NOT MAINLLY GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT CHIRST DID TO OBTAIN RECONCILIATION. Instead you are gong to talk about “salvation” in history and conversion as “regeneration”.

Christ never became regenerate. Because Christ never became corrupt. Bill Parker very much agrees with that. And that is important. But when Parker talks about “new creation”, it’s not mainly about reconciliation–what Bill talks about instead is “new spiritual life” , not the justification of the elect as guilty ungodly sinners. HE HAS MOVED THE JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BEFORE HISTORY. All for whom Christ died are already justified? How do we know for whom Christ died? Is it those who say they were never condemned? Is that what it means “to live for God’s glory”?

Romans 6:7 “For one who has died has been justified from sin. 8 Now since we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer rules over Christ. 10 For the death Christ died Christ died to sin once for all time

It is a mistake to not carry the two headships of Romans 5 into Romans 6. If we carry the thought of the representative character of the two Adams from the one chapter into the other, then the difficulty of Romans 6 vanishes. “We died to sin (verse 2). This phrase frequently occurs in the writings of Paul in different forms, and it always alludes, not to an inward deliverance from sin, but to the Christian’s objective relation to God. It means that we are legally dead to sin in Jesus Christ. This passage applies the same language to the Lord Himself— He is said to have died to sin once (verse 10). Now the ONLY sense in which the Sinless One can be regarded as dying to sin, is that of dying to its guilt, or to the condemning power which goes along with sin. Christ died to guilt. Christ certainly did not die to sin as indwelling power.

It might be asked, “can’t we understand that these statements designate two separate actions, one done by Christ, and a similar or parallel one done by the Holy Spirit in us teaching us the gospel? No. The acts are not two, but one. There is not one crucifixion on the part of Christ, and a second, parallel and similar but different, crucifixion on the part of His people. There is but one corporate act—the act of the “one man”.

Christ was under law. Christ is no longer under law.

Adam’s guilt is imputed to the elect until Christ’s death is imputed to the elect.

The elect in Christ are under condemnation untilGod justifies them.

Christ was under law. Christ is no longer under law but Christ is still not under grace because Christ’s death satisfied the law.

Once Christ’s elect are justified , they are under grace. They were always loved, but then by God’s imputation they are justified before God, no longer under the condemnaton of law.

I do love Bill Parker. Me writing about p 194 is not me “settling old scores”. This is not me judging motives (something Bill seems to do in his last chapter when he talks about his former congregation). This is me wanting to know the truth, wanting to be clear and precise. This is me wanting not to equivocate between “salvation” and “justification”. Sure, there’s a change in spiritual life, but Romans 6 is talking about justification. There was a time when the elect were “free from righteousness”. There was a time when the elect had no righteousness imputed to them.

Bill teachs two different justifications, even though the Bible itself does not. 119 “We can say that they are justified in the court of their conscience” Bill can say it, but it’s begging the question and if it’s true, there should be some arguments that changed Bill’s mind and might change our minds.

143 “There is no salvation apart from the new birth which includes faith in Christ”. If you want to be clear and precise, you can’t switch back and forth between justification and “salvation” without definitions and distinctions.

If you want to stay consistent, give the implication-“But there is justification before there is “salvation” Bill Parker needs to say—Unlike I did in the past, I am now using the word “salvation” in a different way. This makes it look like I am saying the same thing I always preached. But I changed my view about the nature of justification. I also changed my view about “new creation”.

If God justifies or regenerates sinners without those sinners knowing the gospel, then what is their assurance they are actually regenerate?

Andrew Fuller’s “sufficient for all” is tantamount to identifying the doctrine of effectual calling with atonement. What Andrew Fuller really means by definite atonement is that the Spirit’s work of regeneration is only for the elect. Blame Andrew Fuller to making the atonement about what the Spirit does instead of what Christ did. But it’s a bad over-reaction to Andrew Fuller to deny that God imputes Christ’s death to sinners in time and to reduce “salvation” in history to the giving of “spiritual life”

Romans 3:19 The law speaks…in order that every mouth be shut and the whole world becomes subject to God’s judgment…God’s righteousness has been revealed….that is, God’s righteousness through FAITH IN Jesus Christ to ALL WHO BELIEVE

The doctrine of justification in God’s sight after our condemnation in God’s sight is gospel doctrine. It is not the same doctrine as “never condemned in God’s sight”. It’s not the same doctrine as “justified before and without faith in God’s righteousness.”